Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

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rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Funny. You're telling someone else to get a correct translation when you don't even agree with what you wrote...

This is what you posted above:

So, what John is actually saying here, if anyone should be sinning...WE HAVE SOMEONE TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.

You even highlighted what it says!!
Please read it again.


IF we sin,,,we have SOMEONE TO ASK FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.

It's clearly stating that when we do sin, we should ask someone to forgive our sin.
This means that asking is necessary --


We really don't need the Greek, BTW, But since you used it, please read it.


I know what I am claiming, it was who I posted to that claims we do not need to ask for forgiveness anymore.

Maybe you should read the back n forth's before ASSUMING!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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How could you debate what John is clearly saying?

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I understand all the points you're making and they're good points, but you're arguing against something one of the Apostles said.

Jesus' blood cleanses from all sin when it is acknowledged and confessed. Confessing it means we're sorry for it. This is why John says we have an advocate with the Father.
I am not arguing against something one of the apostles said, but rather, people's interpretation of what was said. It is contrary to the Gospel, it contradicts so many verses to suggest that forgiveness is sought through sin confession (as a habitual practice) when we have plain scripture stating to forgive others as God forgave you for Christ's sake. We have forgiveness, in totality. Not just for past sins, but for all sin that may ever occur. This is because of Jesus' blood, and His role as our High Priest, with an eternal priesthood.

Look at the word confess in 1 John 1:9 in the Greek, and see that it means "to come in agreement with." Then read verse 8, and 10 to see the context. What is the person coming in agreement with? The person who claims to be sinless is not of the truth and makes God out to be a liar, so their confession of sin is an acknowledgement of their sinful state and necessity for Christ.

It is, for all intents and purposes, part of the presentation of the Gospel that all fall short of God's glory and are in need of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

It is not a prescription to the believer to confess their sins in order to be forgiven, but is a response to the person claiming sinlessness, making God out to be a liar, that in fact they have sinned (in the past) and need God's forgiveness that is found in walking in the light which is found in Christ so that the Lord may cleanse them of all unrighteousness and sin.
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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Oh, so repentance = sinless perfection! Gotcha!

Repentance is to be a sincere action. If you actually repent, it means you won't do it again. Not sure how you concluded to it being sinless perfection...

I was merely referring to what repentance is supposed to mean!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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I don't promise God I won't do it ever again. I ask for His help to not do it ever again. I know my thorn in the flesh. This is my trouble area that is the weakest. And since I know God gave Paul his thorn in the flesh, my thorn is to keep me humbled like Paul claimed his thorn does.
Oh boy... so I take it your revelations are so great as the Apostle Paul that the Lord has decided to humble you?

2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

God didn't give you a thorn, and sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14).
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Hey, you don't do so badly yourself.

Why do you always bring up the book of Galatians?
Paul is speaking here about the law of Moses...the works of the law.
613 of them. Do you think I'm trying to keep the law of Moses??

Paul is telling the Galatians that the way of works is not correct, that only faith saves.
That they shouldn't listen to those that were preaching works,,,which included circumcision.

verse 5:25 is very important to chapters 5 and 6.
"If we live by the spirit, let us also walk by the spirit"
If it's the spirit of God keeping us alive, then we should also walk in that spirit...
walk is an ongoing action...we WALK, we don't STOP walking...our good actions, or deeds, or works, must continue throughout our lives to reveive the reward in the end. The reward is heaven.

You always make it sound like it's a sin to do good works.

Hebrews 10:35-39
35Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.


37FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.


38BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.


39But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Faith is a noun but can also be considered a verb...it has movement, it makes us move, it makes us WALK.

Yesterday I posted over 50 commandments left to us by Jesus...
Are these works?

No. They are proof of our faith.
Works are works are works......NO one can get more righteous works than the works of the LAW...and Paul in Galatians is addressing ALL who BLEND faith and WORKS to FINISH or top off SALVATION......

At the end of the day the bible is clear....works do not save, keep saved, top of salvation, finish salvation and FAITH as a NOUN is applied unto BELIEF as the MEANS of salvation......

Is an apple tree and apple tree from the moment it sprouts?
It is still an apple tree as it grows and matures for years before it produces 1 piece of fruit?
After the above...does even 1 small, insignificant apple prove it was an apple tree?

The truth.....it was ALWAYS an apple tree by birth (sprouting from an apple seed) regardless of what it bears and or when/if it bears.....

The same is true of a spiritual birth by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED from above.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Oh boy... so I take it your revelations are so great as the Apostle Paul that the Lord has decided to humble you?

2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

God didn't give you a thorn, and sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14).


No, I just know where I am most flawed at. We all have a thorn. Are you claiming you do not have a thorn in your flesh?


God did not give me a thorn?

Let me ask this of you:

The 1 sin you sin the most...why do you commit that sin more often than any other?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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I am not arguing against something one of the apostles said, but rather, people's interpretation of what was said. It is contrary to the Gospel, it contradicts so many verses to suggest that forgiveness is sought through sin confession (as a habitual practice) when we have plain scripture stating to forgive others as God forgave you for Christ's sake. We have forgiveness, in totality. Not just for past sins, but for all sin that may ever occur. This is because of Jesus' blood, and His role as our High Priest, with an eternal priesthood.

Look at the word confess in 1 John 1:9 in the Greek, and see that it means "to come in agreement with." Then read verse 8, and 10 to see the context. What is the person coming in agreement with? The person who claims to be sinless is not of the truth and makes God out to be a liar, so their confession of sin is an acknowledgement of their sinful state and necessity for Christ.

It is, for all intents and purposes, part of the presentation of the Gospel that all fall short of God's glory and are in need of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

It is not a prescription to the believer to confess their sins in order to be forgiven, but is a response to the person claiming sinlessness, making God out to be a liar, that in fact they have sinned (in the past) and need God's forgiveness that is found in walking in the light which is found in Christ so that the Lord may cleanse them of all unrighteousness and sin.
Also John goes on in 1 John 2 saying that if we sin we have an advocate with the Father. This is prescriptive, in that this is how our sins are dealt with. It is not on our part that forgiveness is granted but rather, on our High Priest who intercedes on our behalf. He is the Mediator, between God and man. He is the propitiation (1 John 2:2) for our sins, the appeasement to God's wrath against sin. Sin confession is a matter of transparency, not judicial standing before God or forgiveness that has a say in our eternal destination.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Your thoughts @PennEd @dcontroversal @eternally-gratefull ?

I am curious if you guys agree with this assessment or see a flaw in the logic. To me it is so very clear, praise God, but am curious if some of you fellow believers have come to the same conclusion. You would agree sin confession (as a habitual practice of seeking forgiveness) has no say in the judicial standing of a believer before God?
My view.....

a. ALL my sins were covered at the cross and the blood applied eternally justifies me before the throne of GOD
b. Confession of sin after salvation is for the sake of maintaining and or restoring fellowship <-1st John Chapter 1
c. Sins committed after salvation will not cause the loss of salvation
d. Fellowship is or can hindered by sins not confessed
e. Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more <---for believers.....because the lost are already CONDEMNED.....
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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No, I just know where I am most flawed at. We all have a thorn. Are you claiming you do not have a thorn in your flesh?
Look at the verse again. A "thorn in the flesh" is literally a "messenger of satan" that "buffeted" Paul. It was not some sickness or disease, or weakness of sin, but literally a fallen angel. "Messenger" in the Greek is angelos (angel).
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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Look at the verse again. A "thorn in the flesh" is literally a "messenger of satan" that "buffeted" Paul. It was not some sickness or disease, or weakness of sin, but literally a fallen angel. "Messenger" in the Greek is angelos (angel).


So, no demon tries to attack you?

If the enemy of God is not attacking you, probably means they know you are no threat and are not with God!!
 

BenFTW

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Oct 7, 2012
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So, no demon tries to attack you?

If the enemy of God is not attacking you, probably means they know you are no threat and are not with God!!
I hope that is not your litmus test. You shouldn't leave an invitation to the enemy into your life, in fact scripture says to resist and the devil will flee from you.
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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Why funny?

Do you actually believe that mental illness is always mental illness, or some times could be demonic possession?

There is a queer demonic power. Since we know people ARE NOT ACTUALLY BORN QUEER, to be queer pretty much means they are possessed!!

This gage is the same for us:

If we are not being harassed by the Adversary, probably means the Adversary knows WE ARE NO THREAT to him!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Why funny?

Do you actually believe that mental illness is always mental illness, or some times could be demonic possession?

There is a queer demonic power. Since we know people ARE NOT ACTUALLY BORN QUEER, to be queer pretty much means they are possessed!!

This gage is the same for us:

If we are not being harassed by the Adversary, probably means the Adversary knows WE ARE NO THREAT to him!!
Why do you focus so much on the enemy as opposed to the promises of God? Where do you give glory and praise? Who is it that delivers you, sets you free, and covers you? Who is for you and not against you? Stand upon His word, make no room for the devil.
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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Why do you focus so much on the enemy as opposed to the promises of God? Where do you give glory and praise? Who is it that delivers you, sets you free, and covers you? Who is for you and not against you? Stand upon His word, make no room for the devil.


When I get out of bed each morning, I want the Adversary to think "NO, THERE IS THAT PERSON WHO LOVES GOD AND GOES OUT DAILY TRYING TO RECRUIT FOR GOD...I HATE THAT PERSON"...

I know I AM SAVED!!
I know I WILL BE WITH GOD FOREVER!!

But while I am still on earth, I want to defeat the enemy by saving the lost!!

Therefore, I want the enemy to know I am trying to reverse his every action even if it is 1 person I introduce to God at a time!!
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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You see,

I was fortunate to have a Grandfather and Father who were Bible teachers, professors, evangelists, preachers, pastors...

I witnessed things that were not of God, because the Adversary knew the threat my Grandfather and Father was to him (by how they allowed their faith to enable God to manifest).

Spiritual WARFARE!!

You either got a stomach for it, or you just want to be a FREE LOADER!!

I love SPIRITUAL WARFARE...




Have you ever seen a possessed human being become free in person?
Have you ever witnessed true miracles?
Have you ever heard a demonic voice cry out from a possessed human being?
Have you ever had your home attacked supernaturally?



If you had, you would want to be on the FRONT LINE to put a boot up the Adversary's butt!!
 

Quantrill

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Sep 20, 2018
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You either didn't fully read the post, or are not being intellectually honest. A Christian, born again, forgiven by God through the blood of Christ doesn't seek forgiveness from God on a judicial standing. That confession is the initial repentance of a repentant sinner coming to Christ, a person who claims to be sinless is not of the truth and makes God out to be a liar. Hence, as the verse says, they must confess their sins (read as sinful state, again look at the Greek for confession; "to come in agreement with"). All fall short of the glory of God. This reveals our necessity for Christ.

You are misusing the verse to make a doctrine of sin confession for forgiveness for the believer, as a habitual process by which each individual sin is granted forgiveness based upon one's daily repentance. This is another gospel, a false gospel, for salvation comes through Christ and not sin confession.

When praying and 'fessing up to my sins I do apologize to the Lord, I may even throw in a "Sorry Lord, forgive me" but I quickly follow that by giving Him thanks for the forgiveness I have through His Son. You see, I am sorry that He being perfect and holy, has to deal with me and if/when I fall short of His perfect standard and consider His desire for us to walk in righteousness, I apologize because I believe He expects better of me. That He would tell me to repent, for example, means that I am able to.

I do not, however, believe that my sin confession grants me forgiveness, but rather is a means of transparency before the Lord. Having no door closed and locked, so that He may freely clean house and bring restoration and healing. It is a matter of sanctification, not justification.
John is writing to Christians. (1 John 1:9) is for Christians who sin. It is not a picture of coming to Christ as Lords and Saviour. I believe I was clear that it is speaking to our walk, our santification. You're the one that keeps crossing over from justification to sanctification. I never said anything about confessing our sins in order to be saved. The false gospel you speak of is not from me.

Well, John says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Seems to me that is forgiveness due to confession.
Quantrill
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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You see,

I was fortunate to have a Grandfather and Father who were Bible teachers, professors, evangelists, preachers, pastors...

I witnessed things that were not of God, because the Adversary knew the threat my Grandfather and Father was to him (by how they allowed their faith to enable God to manifest).

Spiritual WARFARE!!

You either got a stomach for it, or you just want to be a FREE LOADER!!

I love SPIRITUAL WARFARE...




Have you ever seen a possessed human being become free in person?
Have you ever witnessed true miracles?
Have you ever heard a demonic voice cry out from a possessed human being?
Have you ever had your home attacked supernaturally?



If you had, you would want to be on the FRONT LINE to put a boot up the Adversary's butt!!





We are in the last days...Tribulation is around the corner.
That my friend, is why you better actually have the faith you claim to possess.
Because we are about to face real SPIRITUAL WARFARE!!

My Grandfather used to say, YOU BETTER KNOW THAT YOU KNOW!!

Is this OSAS going to prove your FAITH?

Are you READY?
 
Apr 15, 2017
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I agree that OSAS is not true but a person is saved if they are led of the Spirit acting like Christ, but do not believe it according to how the OSAS people believe it, which they say they cannot abstain from sins, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, and believe the prosperity Gospel.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God plainly states that He wants all people to repent, and come to the truth, and be saved, so what is the debate about, and they should try to find out the truth instead of ignoring scriptures.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

No person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, and does not come to the Son unless the Father draws them, and the Father reveals that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

So that means that God is working in their life to try to get them to the truth after He called them, which that truth is to realize that sin does affect their relationship with God, and to be led of the Spirit acting Christlike.

But there are many people that do not believe OSAS unless a person acts like Christ led of the Spirit, and a person can lose their salvation if they do not allow the Spirit to lead them, but enjoy sins, so if OSAS is true they would have to be saved also despite them not believing in OSAS, for God would only work in the lives He chose, and they confess those things which means God is working in their life.

But many are called, but few are chosen, and not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will be able to enter heaven, so we have a choice in our salvation.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

There is no excuse for if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins, and a Spirit led life is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sins led by the Spirit, and there is no ways of the flesh there, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If they say they cannot abstain from sins, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, they testify out of their own mouths that they sin, and hold unto sin, for they say they cannot cease from sins, so the law can touch them for prosecution.

And the Bible says if they willingly sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, hold unto sin, there is no more sacrifice for their sin, which means the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and it is on their record.

Continued,
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Continued,

So what is the conclusion to this matter.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

They are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, which they deny being led of the Spirit, for they want to enjoy the world like the world enjoys the world, and then say they are still right with God.

God said from such people turn away for their hypocrisy causes people to say the Christians are hypocritical, and gives offense to the ministry.

We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth seeing no other alternative.

If you program your computer to say I love you, does the computer love you, and is it true love, and if you program your computer to say I hate you, will you get mad and smash your computer.

God chose us we did not choose Him, for when God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, and no one would of gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life, but when they get to the door of truth they have to make the choice to go through the door for God's kingdom is love.

And this truth is to realize they can abstain from sins by the Spirit, and sin does affect their relationship with God, then they are in the truth and chosen.

But God is still working with people that do not understand the truth of that for He called them because they say Jesus is Lord, and God manifest in the flesh.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and without love there is no faith that applies in your life.

Charity is kind, is not arrogant, is not selfish, does not act wrongly, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, which people that sin enjoy that sin, for if they did not enjoy that sin they would not do it, but rejoices in the truth to hate sin, and do not want sin, led by the Spirit, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps the poor and needy if they can.

Love is greater than faith, and if you do not measure up to love, then no faith is applied in your life, which the Bible says that creation testifies of a God that created all things, and of His attributes, which one of them is love, so the world is without excuse, and covers the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people.

Which if the world has no excuse and those that never heard the word of God can understand love by creation, how much more should a saint know of love confessing Christ instead of making an excuse for their lack of love by their sins.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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Did I say to not confess our sins? No, I made a distinction between sin confession for transparency and sin confession for forgiveness. The latter is a falsehood because it, in essence, tramples underfoot the Son of God not attributing to Christ that which He has accomplished on our behalf (the forgiveness of sins).
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I prefer John.