Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines
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E
Lol.
1. Look at the contet of Daniel 9. - Davids prayer for God to shew mercy on his people (Israel)) and his holy city (jerusalem)
2. Gabriel was sent to answer Daniels prayer (please not. Daniel was not praying for the salvation of any jew, let anone a gentile, it was not what he was praying for. Thus shoudl NOT be Taken as something in Gabrels anwer to his prayer, doing so woudl be taking Gabriels answer to david out of context)
3. Messiah was mentioned as a point of reference. (At the end of the 69th week, he will appear, immediately following, he will get cut off.)
4. After the 69th week, we see multiple things occuring
A. We see messiah get cut off, (less than a literal 7 day week later)
B. We see the people of the prince who is to come destroy the city and sanctuary (Titus did this, If he was the prince to come, Gabriel woudl have said the prince who is to come would destroy the city and sanctuary, He did not, because that is not th eprince he was talking about. What he did was show that the future prince would come fromm rome (the people who destroyed the city and
C, we see the city and sanctuary will lay desolate for a determined time, Duting this time their will be many war desolations (this has been going on the lasst 2000 years n dis going on today
D. We see the future prince confirm a covenaant with many for 1 week (7 literal years)
E. We see the same prince put an end to sacrifice nd burnt offering by commiting the abomination of desolation. The same desolation that Jesus warned people. When they see it, STANDIN in the holy place Run.
F We see this prince will hold power for a prdetermined time, then be dstroyed (again in matt 24 we see a clearer picture. There will be great tribulation, such as never has been before, or after (could not be AD 70 as WW1 and WW2 both made AD 70 look like a walk in the park) And this period will be aloud to continue until Christ himself puts an end to it at his return, BECAUSE if he did not return, no flesh on earth would survive.
This is what I see, What you see. I will be honest, I have no idea not only what it is, but how you can see it. I just can’t see it.
1. Look at the contet of Daniel 9. - Davids prayer for God to shew mercy on his people (Israel)) and his holy city (jerusalem)
2. Gabriel was sent to answer Daniels prayer (please not. Daniel was not praying for the salvation of any jew, let anone a gentile, it was not what he was praying for. Thus shoudl NOT be Taken as something in Gabrels anwer to his prayer, doing so woudl be taking Gabriels answer to david out of context)
3. Messiah was mentioned as a point of reference. (At the end of the 69th week, he will appear, immediately following, he will get cut off.)
4. After the 69th week, we see multiple things occuring
A. We see messiah get cut off, (less than a literal 7 day week later)
B. We see the people of the prince who is to come destroy the city and sanctuary (Titus did this, If he was the prince to come, Gabriel woudl have said the prince who is to come would destroy the city and sanctuary, He did not, because that is not th eprince he was talking about. What he did was show that the future prince would come fromm rome (the people who destroyed the city and
C, we see the city and sanctuary will lay desolate for a determined time, Duting this time their will be many war desolations (this has been going on the lasst 2000 years n dis going on today
D. We see the future prince confirm a covenaant with many for 1 week (7 literal years)
E. We see the same prince put an end to sacrifice nd burnt offering by commiting the abomination of desolation. The same desolation that Jesus warned people. When they see it, STANDIN in the holy place Run.
F We see this prince will hold power for a prdetermined time, then be dstroyed (again in matt 24 we see a clearer picture. There will be great tribulation, such as never has been before, or after (could not be AD 70 as WW1 and WW2 both made AD 70 look like a walk in the park) And this period will be aloud to continue until Christ himself puts an end to it at his return, BECAUSE if he did not return, no flesh on earth would survive.
This is what I see, What you see. I will be honest, I have no idea not only what it is, but how you can see it. I just can’t see it.
Dan 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
The consensus belief is that the prince in the verse is the antichrist. But read properly the verse is saying that the people of The Prince (Jesus).... those people sent by Christ to miserably destroy those wicked men and let his out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Take that dispensationalists lol.
The consensus belief is that the prince in the verse is the antichrist. But read properly the verse is saying that the people of The Prince (Jesus).... those people sent by Christ to miserably destroy those wicked men and let his out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Take that dispensationalists lol.
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E
Really?
Lol. Thanks alot man,
Anyway,
The olivet discorse can not change the meanings of words. It can not change the meanings of prophesy.
Daniel was told of two people who would commit an abomination which makes desolate.
The first was the greek emporor fulfilled when antiochus epiphanis slaughterd a pig (unclean animal, or an abomination) in the holy place making it desolate.
The second will do something like it. Even jesus mentioned it in matt 24, when he said WE WILL SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.
The army of rome was not STANDING in the holy place.
In Daniel 9, the destruction of the city would be by an army who was led by a prince (ie titus (the prince) destroyed the city and anctuary)
The abomination of desolation (a different event) would be done by the prince of the people who destroyed the City ie a future roman prince..
Lol. Thanks alot man,
Anyway,
The olivet discorse can not change the meanings of words. It can not change the meanings of prophesy.
Daniel was told of two people who would commit an abomination which makes desolate.
The first was the greek emporor fulfilled when antiochus epiphanis slaughterd a pig (unclean animal, or an abomination) in the holy place making it desolate.
The second will do something like it. Even jesus mentioned it in matt 24, when he said WE WILL SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.
The army of rome was not STANDING in the holy place.
In Daniel 9, the destruction of the city would be by an army who was led by a prince (ie titus (the prince) destroyed the city and anctuary)
The abomination of desolation (a different event) would be done by the prince of the people who destroyed the City ie a future roman prince..
E
Yep
But That, not the abomination of desolation. Thats a different event altogether. Done in the middle of a 7 year period after the prince who is to come confirms a covenant with many. And that prince HIMSELF places the abomination of desolation in the holy place.
That is a different event. I never said that event would not happen, if you read my post. You would have seen that.
But That, not the abomination of desolation. Thats a different event altogether. Done in the middle of a 7 year period after the prince who is to come confirms a covenant with many. And that prince HIMSELF places the abomination of desolation in the holy place.
That is a different event. I never said that event would not happen, if you read my post. You would have seen that.
You never answered my question before so I will ask it again.
The 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel in Dan 9: 24 lists 6 things that will happen DURING/INSIDE the 70 week time frame. Those 6 things are:
1. To finish transgression
2. To make an end of sins
3. To make atonement for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. To anoint the Most Holy/Most Holy Place/Holy of Holies (depending on which version you think is correct)
The amillennialist believes all 6 of these things were accomplished during Christ's lifetime and at the cross. The dispensationalist would disagree with that and thinks at least some of them are not completed. Fair enough.
But I think that both the amill and premill can agree that #3 was accomplished by Christ at the cross.
So here is my question to you again: How did Christ atone for iniquity OUTSIDE the 70 weeks time frame? Daniel 9: 24 says those 6 things will happen WITHIN the 70 weeks.
This appears to prove that the dispensational interpretation of Daniel 9: 24 is wrong according to Scripture. Since this is the only verse where you get the 7-year treaty with the Antichrist and Israel, this should tell you there is going to be no 7 year treaty with the Antichrist and Israel.
How did Christ atone for iniquity OUTSIDE the 70 weeks? Could you please answer that? There is no answer because the dispensational interpretation is refuted by Scripture itself in Daniel 9: 24.
And please don't cite Dan 9: 26 again about messiah being crucified AFTER the 69 weeks. What that is telling you is that He is crucified in the midst of the 70th week.
He has to be or those 6 things listed above are not fullfilled WITHIN the 70 week time frame which Dan 9: 24 tells you.
The 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel in Dan 9: 24 lists 6 things that will happen DURING/INSIDE the 70 week time frame. Those 6 things are:
1. To finish transgression
2. To make an end of sins
3. To make atonement for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. To anoint the Most Holy/Most Holy Place/Holy of Holies (depending on which version you think is correct)
The amillennialist believes all 6 of these things were accomplished during Christ's lifetime and at the cross. The dispensationalist would disagree with that and thinks at least some of them are not completed. Fair enough.
But I think that both the amill and premill can agree that #3 was accomplished by Christ at the cross.
So here is my question to you again: How did Christ atone for iniquity OUTSIDE the 70 weeks time frame? Daniel 9: 24 says those 6 things will happen WITHIN the 70 weeks.
This appears to prove that the dispensational interpretation of Daniel 9: 24 is wrong according to Scripture. Since this is the only verse where you get the 7-year treaty with the Antichrist and Israel, this should tell you there is going to be no 7 year treaty with the Antichrist and Israel.
How did Christ atone for iniquity OUTSIDE the 70 weeks? Could you please answer that? There is no answer because the dispensational interpretation is refuted by Scripture itself in Daniel 9: 24.
And please don't cite Dan 9: 26 again about messiah being crucified AFTER the 69 weeks. What that is telling you is that He is crucified in the midst of the 70th week.
He has to be or those 6 things listed above are not fullfilled WITHIN the 70 week time frame which Dan 9: 24 tells you.
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The disp-sticks are never gonna agree with the 70 weeks ending in the 1st century - but the 70 week ending there also refutes the amill's:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
God was finished with "thy holy city" in the 1st century, but this is the same city of the whore of Babylon aka apostate Jerusalem. Therefore the events in John's revelation are only related to those times.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
God was finished with "thy holy city" in the 1st century, but this is the same city of the whore of Babylon aka apostate Jerusalem. Therefore the events in John's revelation are only related to those times.
E
The context of Dan 9 concerns davids people and city only. Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people.
So what has been accomplished for Israel and the city of jerusalem?
Make atonement for iniquity, That was the purpose of Jesus first advent, as the suffering servnt who would take the sins of his people
As for the rest.
- To finish transgression? Isteal is still in sin.. It has yet to be fulfilled
- make an end of sins? Israel is still in sin, Has yuet to be fulfilled
- Bring in everlasting righteousness? See last two.. Paul says when the time of the gentile is completed. All isreal will be saved, this is when it will occure
- Seal vision and prphesy? Alot of prophesy has yet to be fulfilled
- Anoint the most holy? Depends on interpretation Anoint as king in jerusalem ad promised (davidic covenant) or anoint as High priest sitting at the right hand of God.
Either way Only one of them has been fulfilled.
Now. Are you going to answer my questions? I have been fair to you and answered all your questions.. This is your last chance, Fai to answer again, or ask me more questions BEFORE you answer mine, That will be it..
So what has been accomplished for Israel and the city of jerusalem?
Make atonement for iniquity, That was the purpose of Jesus first advent, as the suffering servnt who would take the sins of his people
As for the rest.
- To finish transgression? Isteal is still in sin.. It has yet to be fulfilled
- make an end of sins? Israel is still in sin, Has yuet to be fulfilled
- Bring in everlasting righteousness? See last two.. Paul says when the time of the gentile is completed. All isreal will be saved, this is when it will occure
- Seal vision and prphesy? Alot of prophesy has yet to be fulfilled
- Anoint the most holy? Depends on interpretation Anoint as king in jerusalem ad promised (davidic covenant) or anoint as High priest sitting at the right hand of God.
Either way Only one of them has been fulfilled.
Now. Are you going to answer my questions? I have been fair to you and answered all your questions.. This is your last chance, Fai to answer again, or ask me more questions BEFORE you answer mine, That will be it..
Where was your question? I didn't see one in your post. Please present it to me and I will try and answer it.
You still didn't answer mine. Your dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells you that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.
Scripture in Dan 9: 24 refutes the dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy which has the 70th week removed 2,000 plus years into the future and still counting.
Now if you have a question for me that you want me to answer please ask it and I will try to. You didn't put it in your previous post and so I don't know what question you are referring too.
You still didn't answer mine. Your dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells you that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.
Scripture in Dan 9: 24 refutes the dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy which has the 70th week removed 2,000 plus years into the future and still counting.
Now if you have a question for me that you want me to answer please ask it and I will try to. You didn't put it in your previous post and so I don't know what question you are referring too.
<<<<banging head against wall. Let me see if I can.....ONE MORE TIME.......make this clear to you. UNless you have never heard of harmonizing the gospels, then it will do no good.
Please read Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. ( AD 70 Jerusalem destroyed by Roman army whose colors are scarlet and hyacinth as descried by John in Revelation)
Matt 24: 15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel standing in the holy place
v16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Note: Christians in Jerusalem did flee to the hills of Pella, not one believer died during that siege.
And now I'm off to dinner.
Please read Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. ( AD 70 Jerusalem destroyed by Roman army whose colors are scarlet and hyacinth as descried by John in Revelation)
Matt 24: 15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel standing in the holy place
v16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Note: Christians in Jerusalem did flee to the hills of Pella, not one believer died during that siege.
And now I'm off to dinner.
d...,
My KJV 1611 edition of The Bible has convinced me that there is a rapture coming and 7 year tribulation period ended by the 2nd advent of Christ to the earth with His 1000 year reign here.
Further, based on end time prophecies we are very near...so you probably won't have long to wait.
Your posts hasn't altered that clear understanding.
If you disagree with the Bible then please explain how we are to make the transition from these earthly bodies to the new ones for eternity?
My KJV 1611 edition of The Bible has convinced me that there is a rapture coming and 7 year tribulation period ended by the 2nd advent of Christ to the earth with His 1000 year reign here.
Further, based on end time prophecies we are very near...so you probably won't have long to wait.
Your posts hasn't altered that clear understanding.
If you disagree with the Bible then please explain how we are to make the transition from these earthly bodies to the new ones for eternity?
E
Thats what I though. Everyone who has been following our conversation knows I made points in my FIRST response to you which you have YET (although I have asked you almost every time I post) to respond.
Everyone here who has been openly following our conversation KNOWS I have answered this question numerous times.
Thus there is only one conclusion I can come to. You are not here to actually discuss the word. Your here to try to bully people to follow yours.
I warned you so many times, Now my warnings are over, Good day sir.
Everyone here who has been openly following our conversation KNOWS I have answered this question numerous times.
Thus there is only one conclusion I can come to. You are not here to actually discuss the word. Your here to try to bully people to follow yours.
I warned you so many times, Now my warnings are over, Good day sir.
E
<<<<banging head against wall. Let me see if I can.....ONE MORE TIME.......make this clear to you. UNless you have never heard of harmonizing the gospels, then it will do no good.
Please read Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. ( AD 70 Jerusalem destroyed by Roman army whose colors are scarlet and hyacinth as descried by John in Revelation)
Matt 24: 15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel standing in the holy place
v16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Note: Christians in Jerusalem did flee to the hills of Pella, not one believer died during that siege.
And now I'm off to dinner.
Please read Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. ( AD 70 Jerusalem destroyed by Roman army whose colors are scarlet and hyacinth as descried by John in Revelation)
Matt 24: 15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel standing in the holy place
v16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Note: Christians in Jerusalem did flee to the hills of Pella, not one believer died during that siege.
And now I'm off to dinner.
The destruction of jerusalem by the roman army iS NOT the abomination of desolation.
TITUS is not the prince who is to come who confirmed a covenant for 7 years, (nor was Jesus by the way, He confirmed an eternal covenant for all who come to him, not just for many)
Jesus said the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION CAN BE SEEN BY ALL (that never occured in ad 70, nor was it even possible)
I suggest you learn what the jews and even daniel himself would have considered the abomination, which makes desolate. (See also Dan Then you MAY understand why I can not not see this fulfilled in AD 70.
In fact, here you go. This is what daniel and all would have known and understood what an abomination which makes desolate is. And what it is which takes away daily sacrifices!
Dan 11: So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And [n]forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation
And as I said before. This was literally fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanis when he entered jerusalem.
Again, Use historical precedence and historical thinking to interpret the word. This is one MAJOR aspect of hermeneutics it seems so many people love to ignore.