Did he know...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#21
Why did the Israelite's Exodus, freedom from Egyptian slavery, require destruction of the Egyptians when God's laws unto the Hebrews entailed the edict, thou shalt not murder? Even before Sinai.
The commandment forbidding murder is applicable to individuals.

The destruction of Egypt and the Egyptians was DIVINE JUDGMENT against an idolatrous people, who refused to believe in the one true God, and whose king was defiant against God over and over again, while hating and mistreating the people of God.

People -- even Christians -- forget that while God is gracious and merciful to those who repent and turn to Him, He brings severe judgments, death, and destruction on the unbelieving, the ungodly and the wicked. And the world ain't seen nothin' yet.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#22
Moses looked left and right to see if anyone was looking, then killed him, then buried him in the sand. He thought perhaps no one knew.
11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Ex 2:11-12

Either Moses allowed to the Egyptian to beat the Hebrew man to death, or else he waited to the Hebrew man walked away.

Because the destruction of the Egyptians was not murder.

Quantrill
That is about as foolish as saying throwing Christians to the lions wasn't murder either.
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Gen 9:6
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#23
That is about as foolish as saying throwing Christians to the lions wasn't murder either.
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Gen 9:6

God is the One who destroyed Egypt. Not man. When God takes a life or life's, it is never murder. All life is His to take. Any way He wants to.

Quantrill
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,595
3,619
113
#24
You know how moses killed the Egyptian for the way he was treating one of His kin?

It makes me wonder if He knew he, himself, too was a Hebrew, a Levite or if He would have responded that way with anyone on the receiving end of such repulsive oppression?
The Bible is not clear on what Moses knew at the time.. Whilst he was brought up as an Egyptian he had a Hebrew nanny his actual mother.. And i am quite sure she would have shown him genuine love and affection.. So maybe that early life experience triggered him when he saw the Egyptian abusing the Hebrew slaves.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,177
113
#25
One would think generically that Moses would have been different than the average Egyptian. Grant it, the Egyptians range greatly in appearance from very light skinned to extremely dark skinned, but the Egyptian masters seem to understand who the Hebrews were from themselves. Another reason that seems rather obvious, Moses' mother was someone who helped raised him. I'm sure she would have eventually told him once he could keep a secret (lol).
I would think his Mama wouldn't say, fearing he might not keep the secret. But I do now, after reading these threads and learning the word more believe he knew. I do accept that He had a decent heart and mind that he might have reacted that harshly, defending anyone who was on the receiving end of a beat down. However, it clearly referenced the point that it was because the person was kin. Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate reading them all.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
#26
Maybe this is a case of vengeance is His?!! Good one Lilly, what do you think?
I think it hearkens to the eye for an eye of the OT. The Egyptians enslaved the Israelites and treated them horribly. They were enslaved under Pharaoh and could only be extricated through violence. The likes of which showed the god's of Egypt were not powerful after all. Which is why the plagues made the people suffer even though each one should have been stopped by the supplicants placating the god in control in that particular area suffering the plague.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#27
God is the One who destroyed Egypt. Not man.
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
Ex 1:8-10

And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
Ex 12:51

So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king's house; he took all: he carried away also the shields of gold which Solomon had made.
2 Chron 12:9

When God takes a life or life's, it is never murder. All life is His to take. Any way He wants to.
Quantrill
Well Pharaoh, the question was about Moses slaying the Egyptian.

Because the destruction of the Egyptians was not murder.

But I understand your answer Pharaoh, And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: Ex 7:1
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#28
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
Ex 1:8-10

And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
Ex 12:51

So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king's house; he took all: he carried away also the shields of gold which Solomon had made.
2 Chron 12:9



Well Pharaoh, the question was about Moses slaying the Egyptian.


But I understand your answer Pharaoh, And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: Ex 7:1
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
Ex 1:8-10

And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
Ex 12:51

So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king's house; he took all: he carried away also the shields of gold which Solomon had made.
2 Chron 12:9



Well Pharaoh, the question was about Moses slaying the Egyptian.


But I understand your answer Pharaoh, And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: Ex 7:1
No, you don't understand. The question I responded to was about the destruction of the Egyptians. God destroyed Egypt. He killed many. It is not murder when God does it.

Quantrill
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#29
Egyptians would not have been circumcised. was Moses?
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#30
You know how moses killed the Egyptian for the way he was treating one of His kin?

It makes me wonder if He knew he, himself, too was a Hebrew, a Levite or if He would have responded that way with anyone on the receiving end of such repulsive oppression?
Exo 2:10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.

Exo 2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

Moses knew he was a Hebrew when he slew the Egyptian, but the Bible tells of him being pulled out of the water as a baby, and became the son of the Pharaoh's daughter, but then the next verse he is a grown man, so it does not tell us what went on during that time, but somewhere down the line he knew he was a Hebrew.

I do not know who told him, or how he found out, but he knew he was a Hebrew when he slew the Egyptian, but he might of known his while life because they might not of hid it from him for he was Hebrew, and might not be acceptable to the Egyptians being a Hebrew, for how would the Pharaoh's daughter tell him who the father is if she tried to pass it as Egyptian.

So maybe the stories of Moses possibly being the Prince of Egypt, and a person of high stature in Egypt might be a myth, and maybe he was only a lowly Hebrew in the Egyptians eyes, and not one of great stature as they say, because it goes from him being a baby to a man in 2 verses, and nothing in between to know if he was great in the kingdom or not.

Exo 2:14 And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.
Exo 2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

The way the Hebrew said who make you a prince and a judge over us might indicate that Moses was not the man we thought he was in Egypt, for the Hebrew did not look at Moses as being an important person in Egypt, for if he was important the Hebrew would of never talked that way to him, as they were apt to get disciplined for doing so if they went against an Egyptian, especially if Moses was one of great stature as they say, for then it would almost be like talking back to Pharaoh, and they would of not cared if he slew the Egyptian if they thought he was an Egyptian, especially if he was very important, and also Moses had to flee because of slaying an Egyptian so obviously the Pharaoh would not be pleased, and if he was someone important the Pharaoh might forgive him, especially if he considered him his son with all the privileges, and rights, that go along with it.

Moses was a baby, then the next verse he was an adult, then he slew the Egyptian, then he fled to Midian.

And nothing else at all for us to know about his growing up, so when they say Moses was a great man in Egypt with privileges,, and rights, of a Pharaoh's son could all be a myth, for the Bible does not tell us and they assume he would be great in the kingdom being the Pharaoh's daughter, although he would have it better than the other Hebrews, and not be a slave to hard labor, for the Pharaoh would give him some kind of privilege above the other Hebrews.

Gen 43:32 And they set on for him by himself, and for them by themselves, and for the Egyptians, which did eat with him, by themselves: because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Gen 46:34 That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

But I believe it is a myth, and Moses was not the great man in the kingdom of Egypt, and did not have the privileges, and rights, of a son of Pharaoh, although he probably had some responsibility, and he knew he was a Hebrew his whole life, but to the Egyptians he was considered lower to them.

But they assume he was great, but I do not believe he really was, but I do not want to burst their bubble, and make them redo their books and movies to portray it rightly, for that could be too much of a burden on them, and we know Hollywood, and books, like to exaggerate the truth and it would not make for a good movie or book with lowly Moses in Egypt, lol.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#31
Egyptians would not have been circumcised. was Moses?
Exodus 2:

1 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.

2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months.


Moses was the son of a Levite (both father and mother). Levites would have circumcised their son according to what was spoken to Abraham (Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you).


Do you think that just because the children of Israel were enslaved in egypt they would not have followed the instruction given by God to Abraham and passed down from generation to generation?

I believe Moses would have been circumcised the 8th day:

Genesis 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#32
Do you think that just because the children of Israel were enslaved in egypt they would not have followed the instruction given by God to Abraham and passed down from generation to generation?

I believe Moses would have been circumcised the 8th day:

Genesis 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you
to be honest i expected that Moses is circumcised, because i know God was going to kill him for not circumcising his son. figure if God is going to kill Moses over circumcision his own circumcision is at least as important.

but have a look here --

At that time the Lord said to Joshua, “Make flint knives and circumcise the Israelites again.” So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the Israelites at Gibeath Haaraloth.
Now this is why he did so: All those who came out of Egypt—all the men of military age—died in the wilderness on the way after leaving Egypt. All the people that came out had been circumcised, but all the people born in the wilderness during the journey from Egypt had not.
(Joshua 5:2-5)

the people didn't circumcise their children while they were walking in the wilderness eating manna every morning and seeing God in a pillar of cloud & fire before them all day and night. they had been to Sinai and received the law and seen many miracles -- but they still didn't circumcise their children as they knew they should.

so i thought, maybe i should not just assume.


anyway here's how Moses might know he is an Hebrew and not an Egyptian, even tho he's been raised in Pharaohs household since he was a baby. :)
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#33
to be honest i expected that Moses is circumcised, because i know God was going to kill him for not circumcising his son. figure if God is going to kill Moses over circumcision his own circumcision is at least as important.
In agreement. I always figured if Moses had not been circumcised, God would have required it here. But only the son is mentioned as needing to be circumcised.




posthuman said:
so i thought, maybe i should not just assume.
Yeah, I get that.



 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#34
Moses was given back to his mother to nurse and raise him for awhile. I don't believe we are ever told for exactly how long. (Ex. 2:7-10) I believe he would have been taught and know the people he came from.

Quantrill
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,177
113
#35
I keep think on the verse itself


Now it came about in those days, when Moses had grown up, that he went out to his brethren and looked on their hard labors; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren.
Exodus 2:11 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/exo.2.11.NASB

That says, His Brethren and then says the SO...

So he looked this way and that, and when he saw there was no one around, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
Exodus 2:12 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/exo.2.12.NASB

So based on that, we don't need to assume because we are given the info that had me pondering..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#36
You know how moses killed the Egyptian for the way he was treating one of His kin?



It makes me wonder if He knew he, himself, too was a Hebrew, a Levite or if He would have responded that way with anyone on the receiving end of such repulsive oppression?

You could say a picture of God protecting the incorruptible spiritual seed...……... Christ .

It was closing on the 400 year wait before God used Israel in a parable to represent a picture of salvation Coming out from under the authority of the father of lies represented by the Pharaoh, into a promised land the temporal seen to represent the true the new Jerusalem the city of Christ prepared as His bride that he named Christian.

I think Moses was aware it was the Spirit of Christ working in him . It could be called the Hebrew spirit seeing at that time period prophecy came in Hebrew. It came after all the nation at Pentecost.

You could say it took the Egyptians were surprised like a thief in the night. The true believers were watching for the Abraham's promise to come to fruit they trusted it was the hand of God leading them out towards the promised land. .

Genesis 15:12-14 King James Version (KJV)And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#37
Note also that Acts 7:23 states that Moses was 40 years old at the time of the record in Ex 2:11-12.

Moses had learned of his Hebrew heritage when he was a young child, and then he had been educated in the egyptian culture. Were there historical records of the famine and of Joseph who, through the grace of God, had brought riches to egypt? Did Moses know that Joseph was a Hebrew and that Joseph had risen to be governor over the land of egypt (Gen 42:6, Acts 7:10)? Did Moses see that the children of Israel were now slaves to the eyptians and were treated so poorly by them?

Was Moses aware of the atrocities committed as shown in Ex 1:16? How would that knowledge have affected Moses? To know that he lived sumptuously in the palace of one who had ordered the killing of newborn infants ... and that he had been spared because his father and his mother had faith in the God Who spared him? The same God Who had brought Joseph to Egypt?

In Heb 11:25-26 we are told that Moses chose to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt

And in vs 27 — he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Amen verse 27. was freely given the faith of Christ to see or believe God not seen.

That faith of God worked in Moses to both will and do the good pleasure of our God as a imputed righteousness, by which we are called friends of God. God who loved us first giving us ears to hear what his Spirit is saying to the churches (denomination) .