Not By Works

His argument sounds similar to a statement made by a Roman Catholic who I was once in a discussion with and he said:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments, Doing the will of the Father etc..

Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to INCLUDE works, yet he also claimed to me that he does not teach salvation by works. Absolute contradiction and Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors.

Hi bud.

We don't do Thanksgiving over here like my American buddies do.
I was at work sat at my desk eating egg mayo sandwiches.

I hope you ALL had a good day though.

Maybe next year I'll have a Turkey sandwich and join in over this side of the pond.

Hi Pisteuo, it would be helpful for everyone here if you would please tell us what Christian Church you are associated with, the reason I ask this is because your post sounds like you are insecure in what you believe.

Thank you and God bless!

He's heretical but gets a pass on here. His posts get "likes."

TT,

One of my favourite verses you have posted.
It brings tears to my eyes every time I read it.

What a loving and compassionate Father we have.
He knows the wheat from the tares.

Psalms 51:16-17
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Psalms 40:6-10
6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
9 I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O Lord, You Yourself know.
10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.

Thank you brother for posting that verse.

Hebrews 10:5-10

Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will
(cf. Ps. 40:6–8)
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

40:6 The Lord takes pleasure in those who obediently come to Him with praise on their lips (1 Sam. 15:22, 23). My ears You have opened: The Lord not only gives us ears to hear His word, but also grants us understanding so that we can truly obey Him.
40:7, 8 Behold, I come: David brings his sacrifice, but his focus is on presenting his own life to the Lord (Rom. 12:1, 2). According to the Book of Hebrews, Jesus spoke these words to the Father (Heb. 10:4–6). Delight is related to the word desire in v. 6. What brings pleasure to God will also bring delight to His people.
40:11, 12 Do not withhold: Even after the experience of deliverance with which the psalm begins, David has another reason to turn to the Lord in renewed prayer. The Hebrew for Your tender mercies (which can also mean “womb”) refers to God’s affection for us. In effect, David is asking the Lord to surround him with warmth and comfort that is practically maternal.
40:13–15 deliver me: David does not ask for forgiveness of sin here (contrast 51:3, 4), but for deliverance from powerful enemies. Aha, aha: David’s enemies are all around him, taunting him mercilessly (35:21).

Now that is a question a JEWISH CHRISTIAN can answer in a Heartbeat. You see unlike ENGLISH that has several definitions or degrees for the term BELIEVING, the Jews only have ONE. To genuinely Believe something you must be willing to PUT YOUR WHOLE WEIGHT OR TRUST ON THAT WHICH YOU CLAIM TO BELIEVE IN.

Here is an example of what that means, the came from the late Zola Levitt.

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter.

And Jew #1 said to Jew #2, "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"

And Jew #2 said, "Yes, I do believe that it is thick enough to walk on." And then just stuck one TOE out to test the ice.

Jew #1 would start to scream: "LIAR! LIAR! If you really BELIEVED THE ICE WAS THICK ENOUGH, you would have boldly stepped OUT THERE with both feet and put your whole weight on that ice."


So in the JEWISH BELIEVER'S mindset, if you are UNWILLING to Put your whole weight and TRUST on JESUS for your SALVATION, YOU ARE LYING ABOUT TRULY BELIEVING IN JESUS, for whatever reason.

I'm not going to argue a lot about whether "Deceived " and "Convinced to believe a lie" are not the same things. Nowhere is the text is "Hope" even mentioned yet you insert it into the conversation.

I might also add that since the Christ said I am to "Live by" Every Word of God, I must also look to other Spirit inspired Word's of God to understand scripture.

The "Text" says Eve was deceived. Surely you believe she was deceived.

de·ceive
/dəˈsēv/
verb
past tense: deceived; past participle: deceived

1. (of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.

So in reality I'm am not adding to the Text at all, Rather, following the perfect instructions of the Christ and "Including" all the Texts about her. This way I can understand what the true message the Christ is showing me in this example for my edification.

No offence, but I don't see how you can, using God's Word, say she wasn't "convinced" of something that was not true.

I would give you this one, except the scriptures were pretty clear. Eve was deceived, which translates into being convinced into believing something that was not true. Since God speaks the truth, she must have been deceived, or convinced into believing something that is not true from "another voice".

I appreciate your thoughts on this Megenta, but I think it's pretty clear. Eve was definitely convinced of a lie.

Hi Studyman,
Eve was deceived,,,,but did she Know she was deceived?
Apparently she believed the snakes lie.

Good concept!
Many here believe Doctrine is going to save them instead of Jesus.
They're more legalistic than those they call legalists!

But let me ask you,,,,isn't obedience part of saving faith???

Lol , you couldn't be more wrong !

My only insecurities are in what you believe . Because there is no such thing as believing .

Maybe you can define legalism from both sides of the equation you mentioned above.
Those who base the doctrine of faith saves are legalists as you say, yet legalists also have a doctrine that saves which is works.

One has to be wrong.
Which one?

Both sides are obedient, but to what?
How does qualify and quantity obedience and works?

No such thing as believing?

You obviously believe in something because you have no insecurity in what someone else believes in.

The application of saving Faith or pisteuo is a process . It has a beginning , a testing period , and a maintenance period in which we receive the Spirit of Christ . Whenever I refer to pisteuo , the context is always based on the surrendered life .

Once we are " in Christ " and His nature begins to flow . Part of that nature is His obedience flowing through us from time to time . But it only happens because we are continually surrendering our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender . Just as Paul says , " it's not me doing it anymore but sin dwelling in me doing it " . But by the same token ( due to sanctification or separation ) whenrver he does something Holy or of God , it's not him doing that either , but the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him doing it .

The only thing we are really doing is answering the call of the Father by pisteuo , by a personal surrendering of our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender . " Trusting " , that He will accept the surrendered life , that he will direct the surrendered life , that He will sustain the surrendered life , that He will regenerate the surrendered life , that He will keep and hide the surrendered life .

Our only part is to continually , daily , hourly if need be , surrender our life and will to Him . Making all the little daily decisions supporting the fact , our lives are nolonger ours anymore but His .

As we move forward in the process , his presence will result in more Faith and faithing . His Spirit causing us to be givers will result in increased Faith and faithing . Having the mind of Christ will result in increased Faith and faithing . Seeing a reflection of our surrendered life in God's Word through others who went before us will result in increased Faith and faithing .All by simply fulfilling pisteuo correctly .

And just to verify , saving Faith and faithing has allways required work . The Greek never separated Faith and work or effort . Only when pisteuo or faithing was mistranslated into the English language was work and Faithing having to be separated .

And it's not work or effort to better or replace the finished work of Christ " Grace " , it takes work and effort to continually surrender our lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender . It's the hardest and easiest thing we will ever do .

Am I missing something ? I didn't think anyone liked what I'm bearing witness to

A couple likes but maybe they wised up. Lot of gullible people out there. But people are onto your false "faithing" heresy.

Ya that's kind of where I'm at . When someone can take an exact definition of arguably the most important word in the scriptures right out of the Greek dictionarys, and the overwhelming majority call it a false heresy , not being able to accept sound doctrine comes to mind .