Daniel's 70 weeks correctly interpreted (in my opinion)
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After the Solomon the Hebrew nation was split in two and Israel or Ephraim as it is often called was
consisted of ten tribes and Judah was made from the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and Levites. I mention this because calling the whole population Israel in 70AD leads to confusion.
Much of the OT deals with the period when the two nations still existed. Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians and what was destroyed in the Jewish war including Jerusalem was Judah.
There wouldn't be any mention of AD70 in the OT because its history ends with the return of Judah to Babylon. Jesus warns of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the Gospels. Josephas gives an
eye witness account of it all some details of which actually confirms Jesus' prophecies in the gospels.
This is quite remarkable bearing in mind that he was not a Christian
consisted of ten tribes and Judah was made from the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and Levites. I mention this because calling the whole population Israel in 70AD leads to confusion.
Much of the OT deals with the period when the two nations still existed. Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians and what was destroyed in the Jewish war including Jerusalem was Judah.
There wouldn't be any mention of AD70 in the OT because its history ends with the return of Judah to Babylon. Jesus warns of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the Gospels. Josephas gives an
eye witness account of it all some details of which actually confirms Jesus' prophecies in the gospels.
This is quite remarkable bearing in mind that he was not a Christian
I really doubt that there is 12 000 pure blood from each tribe today, to trace their blood back and know that they only have descendants from one tribe would be amazing and to have 12 000 from each tribe would be a miracle. God can do anything but He broke off many of the branches to graft in the gentiles and we are now spiritual Jews. So i can see this applying to Spiritual Jews, that follow Christ.
Okay, so what do you think it meant when Jesus said (in Matthew 24:15-16),
"THEREFORE WHEN you shall see 'the abomination of desolation,' having been spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place--the one reading, let him understand-THEN those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains" (the "WHEN" and "THEN" construction).
"When" were they to "flee" according to your view? I understood you to mean that the Cross was the Abomination [of desolation] (32ad) which then leads to the later " (70ad) desolation" part (of the AOD all told), according to your view. This doesn't sound too much like "THEREFORE WHEN ye shall see" and the "THEN" (the "WHEN" and "THEN... FLEE"), but sounds more like a "hey look, the Cross. [*yawn*] Welp, take your time and mosey on along, oh, something like about 40 years from ["when"]now, or whatever..."
[I see the SEQUENCE to be showing TWO completely distinct "SEE, then FLEE" events. One BEFORE the beginning of birth pangs (Lk21:20), and one FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (the "THEREFORE" KEY in Matt24:15)]
"THEREFORE WHEN you shall see 'the abomination of desolation,' having been spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place--the one reading, let him understand-THEN those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains" (the "WHEN" and "THEN" construction).
"When" were they to "flee" according to your view? I understood you to mean that the Cross was the Abomination [of desolation] (32ad) which then leads to the later " (70ad) desolation" part (of the AOD all told), according to your view. This doesn't sound too much like "THEREFORE WHEN ye shall see" and the "THEN" (the "WHEN" and "THEN... FLEE"), but sounds more like a "hey look, the Cross. [*yawn*] Welp, take your time and mosey on along, oh, something like about 40 years from ["when"]now, or whatever..."
[I see the SEQUENCE to be showing TWO completely distinct "SEE, then FLEE" events. One BEFORE the beginning of birth pangs (Lk21:20), and one FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (the "THEREFORE" KEY in Matt24:15)]
Okay, so what do you think it meant when Jesus said (in Matthew 24:15-16),
"THEREFORE WHEN you shall see 'the abomination of desolation,' having been spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place--the one reading, let him understand-THEN those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains" (the "WHEN" and "THEN" construction).
"When" were they to "flee" according to your view? I understood you to mean that the Cross was the Abomination [of desolation] (32ad) which then leads to the later " (70ad) desolation" part (of the AOD all told), according to your view. This doesn't sound too much like "THEREFORE WHEN ye shall see" and the "THEN" (the "WHEN" and "THEN... FLEE"), but sounds more like a "hey look, the Cross. [*yawn*] Welp, take your time and mosey on along, oh, something like about 40 years from ["when"]now, or whatever..."
[I see the SEQUENCE to be showing TWO completely distinct "SEE, then FLEE" events. One BEFORE the beginning of birth pangs (Lk21:20), and one FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (the "THEREFORE" KEY in Matt24:15)]
"THEREFORE WHEN you shall see 'the abomination of desolation,' having been spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place--the one reading, let him understand-THEN those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains" (the "WHEN" and "THEN" construction).
"When" were they to "flee" according to your view? I understood you to mean that the Cross was the Abomination [of desolation] (32ad) which then leads to the later " (70ad) desolation" part (of the AOD all told), according to your view. This doesn't sound too much like "THEREFORE WHEN ye shall see" and the "THEN" (the "WHEN" and "THEN... FLEE"), but sounds more like a "hey look, the Cross. [*yawn*] Welp, take your time and mosey on along, oh, something like about 40 years from ["when"]now, or whatever..."
[I see the SEQUENCE to be showing TWO completely distinct "SEE, then FLEE" events. One BEFORE the beginning of birth pangs (Lk21:20), and one FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (the "THEREFORE" KEY in Matt24:15)]
40 years later when you see Jeruslem surrounded by armies it's over. The city is surrounded, you can't get out of town at this point... you are toast. God's wrath is upon you.
So, they could take their time (but not too much time) to "SEE and then FLEE"??
Do you mean "the wilderness" was defined as "in Galilee"?
Matthew 26:32 -
"But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."
Matthew 28:7 -
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you."
Mark 14:28 -
"But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee."
Mark 16:7 -
"But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you."
[then note...]
Matthew 28:16 -
"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee [no mention of "FLEE[-ing]"], into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, but some doubted." [see also the directive in verse 10]... and then Jesus said to them [in part], "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [Israel and Jerusalem excluded...??]..."
...because [in view of my first paragraph at top] according to these verses, Jesus "returned... into Galilee" after having been "[led by the Spirit] into the wilderness," in Luke 4:1,14. So, "Galilee" and "the wilderness" seem to be distinct. If they were to "SEE and then FLEE to the wilderness" (at the time of the Cross), why were they hanging out "in Galilee," as directed to do, by Jesus Himself (both beforehand [said before the Cross], and afterwards)?
And do you see any correlation between the "FLEE" in the Olivet Discourse, and that found in Revelation 12? (where "1260 days" remain, and the "time, times, half a time" are also referred to, in verses 6,14)
Do you mean "the wilderness" was defined as "in Galilee"?
Matthew 26:32 -
"But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."
Matthew 28:7 -
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you."
Mark 14:28 -
"But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee."
Mark 16:7 -
"But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you."
[then note...]
Matthew 28:16 -
"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee [no mention of "FLEE[-ing]"], into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, but some doubted." [see also the directive in verse 10]... and then Jesus said to them [in part], "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [Israel and Jerusalem excluded...??]..."
...because [in view of my first paragraph at top] according to these verses, Jesus "returned... into Galilee" after having been "[led by the Spirit] into the wilderness," in Luke 4:1,14. So, "Galilee" and "the wilderness" seem to be distinct. If they were to "SEE and then FLEE to the wilderness" (at the time of the Cross), why were they hanging out "in Galilee," as directed to do, by Jesus Himself (both beforehand [said before the Cross], and afterwards)?
And do you see any correlation between the "FLEE" in the Olivet Discourse, and that found in Revelation 12? (where "1260 days" remain, and the "time, times, half a time" are also referred to, in verses 6,14)
P.S. ...and speaking of ^ "day amounts" (supplied in Scripture)...
Jesus had said "[when ye therefore shall see] the ABOMINATION [SINGULAR] of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains..."
… well, Daniel (in chpt 9) speaks of "ABOMINATIONS [plural], but in chpt 12 of "ABOMINATION [singular]" in connection with the 1290 days [again, noting "when" Daniel was told he will be "resurrected"; and also the "BLESSED" in connection with 1335 days], and also [the singular] in chpt 11:31 (which many believe the end times [far future] are not in view until verse 35, so this in verse 31 is likely speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes as a TYPE of the far-future event; and some see these several earlier verses [just before v.35] as referring to both)
Jesus had said "[when ye therefore shall see] the ABOMINATION [SINGULAR] of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains..."
… well, Daniel (in chpt 9) speaks of "ABOMINATIONS [plural], but in chpt 12 of "ABOMINATION [singular]" in connection with the 1290 days [again, noting "when" Daniel was told he will be "resurrected"; and also the "BLESSED" in connection with 1335 days], and also [the singular] in chpt 11:31 (which many believe the end times [far future] are not in view until verse 35, so this in verse 31 is likely speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes as a TYPE of the far-future event; and some see these several earlier verses [just before v.35] as referring to both)
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^ ...and speaking of the wording in Daniel 12:11 (regarding the "day amounts" of 1290d, and the "ABOMINATION [SINGULAR]",) it specifically says, "...and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP [H5414 - set up, placed, put]…" which is the same word used in the following verse:
Leviticus 26:1 -
"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [H1415] any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."
… which passage seems to correlate precisely with both Matthew 24:15 ["standing in the holy place"] AND with that of Revelation 13, especially verse 15 (regarding "worship the image of the beast") and verse 14's "that they should make an image to the beast".
This ^ sounds completely distinct from the event of "the Cross," wouldn't you say?
Leviticus 26:1 -
"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [H1415] any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."
… which passage seems to correlate precisely with both Matthew 24:15 ["standing in the holy place"] AND with that of Revelation 13, especially verse 15 (regarding "worship the image of the beast") and verse 14's "that they should make an image to the beast".
This ^ sounds completely distinct from the event of "the Cross," wouldn't you say?
… yet, in Revelation 7:9,14, it states, "a great multitude, which no man could number [contrasted with the "numbered" 144,000 of Israel] of all the nations [plural]," and "these are the [ones] coming out of THE GREAT tribulation...". How could this be, according to your viewpoint, that "all the nations [PLURAL (see also Mt24:14!)]" are involved in "the great tribulation," if they (the disciples / they which be in Judaea) were to "FLEE" after the Cross, and/or within the some-40 yrs from "SEE[-ing]" the Cross event?? (meaning, if those 40 years were what "the great tribulation" was, according to your view).
Jerimiah 31
The New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
35Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36“If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”
37Thus says the Lord:
“If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,
declares the Lord.”
The New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
35Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36“If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”
37Thus says the Lord:
“If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,
declares the Lord.”
Abomination of Desolation was a term used by the Jews to refer to the desecration of the Temple in much the same way that we use 9/11 as a term to refer to the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers. The Temple was desecrated twice before the time of Jesus by Babylon and Antiochus Epiphanes
The second event took place in Daniels future and the temples rededication was commemorated by
the festival of Dedication known today as Hanukha. It was to this that Jesus referred to because it was to happen in the Disciples generation. The book of Revelation had not been written then so Jesus used
Daniels Prophecy as a warning that they would understand. His warning carries on from his attack on the Jewish leadership in Matthew 23
The second event took place in Daniels future and the temples rededication was commemorated by
the festival of Dedication known today as Hanukha. It was to this that Jesus referred to because it was to happen in the Disciples generation. The book of Revelation had not been written then so Jesus used
Daniels Prophecy as a warning that they would understand. His warning carries on from his attack on the Jewish leadership in Matthew 23
Here's what I believe TDW... The saints were being persecuted and beaten even before Christ died. The persecution increased greatly after his death, it persecuted to the point that the persecution drove many of the saints to other areas and this is how the gospel was spread to the rest of the world.
And yes people should've been making haste to get out of there but people today don't even understand the abomination of desolation so I doubt many, if any left until the persecution was so bad that they were forced to leave or die.
I guess you're assuming, based on the verses that you posted, that everything was hunky dory during that time on nobody was in any danger.
But none of that even matters because AD70 was the wrath of God. God brutally and I mean brutally killed all those Jews and once the armies surrounded Jerusalem there was no getting out. At that point no one could flee to the mountains of Judeah. If you were in Jerusalem at that time you were stuck.
And yes people should've been making haste to get out of there but people today don't even understand the abomination of desolation so I doubt many, if any left until the persecution was so bad that they were forced to leave or die.
I guess you're assuming, based on the verses that you posted, that everything was hunky dory during that time on nobody was in any danger.
But none of that even matters because AD70 was the wrath of God. God brutally and I mean brutally killed all those Jews and once the armies surrounded Jerusalem there was no getting out. At that point no one could flee to the mountains of Judeah. If you were in Jerusalem at that time you were stuck.
Yes its a common error. I blame this on preachers who call them the "144 000 jews"
I think this is because people dont read the books of kings and chronicles and all those history books to find out about the two kingdoms (of Israel and of Judah) and the tribes residing therein, and who was called what!
I think this is because people dont read the books of kings and chronicles and all those history books to find out about the two kingdoms (of Israel and of Judah) and the tribes residing therein, and who was called what!
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I don't know why you say that, because I've repeatedly stated that Luke 21:12-24 covers the events SURROUNDING 70ad:
Luke 21:12-24 - [does this sound like I think it was "hunky dory"??]
12 But before all these [that is, BEFORE ALL THESE BIRTH PANGS just listed in vv.8-11 (parallel to Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8), THIS has to happen---> (events surrounding 70ad, and leading up to it)--->], they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and [this part follows on from 70ad--->] shall be led away captive into all nations: [and this part means this isn't ended until this--->] and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. ["the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. Gentile domination over Israel) pertains to Neb's statue/image, with Neb as head of gold, and which STARTED in 606bc, but will END at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth (42 mos after mid-trib/mid-70th-Wk, Rev11:2; parallel with the TIMING of Daniel 7:25,27 and Daniel 2:35)]
Luke 21:12-24 - [does this sound like I think it was "hunky dory"??]
12 But before all these [that is, BEFORE ALL THESE BIRTH PANGS just listed in vv.8-11 (parallel to Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8), THIS has to happen---> (events surrounding 70ad, and leading up to it)--->], they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and [this part follows on from 70ad--->] shall be led away captive into all nations: [and this part means this isn't ended until this--->] and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. ["the TIMES of the Gentiles" (i.e. Gentile domination over Israel) pertains to Neb's statue/image, with Neb as head of gold, and which STARTED in 606bc, but will END at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth (42 mos after mid-trib/mid-70th-Wk, Rev11:2; parallel with the TIMING of Daniel 7:25,27 and Daniel 2:35)]