The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

No problem bro! We are all in this together so I hope we all fulfill our parts in the body well to the glory of our Father through His Son Jesus:

Romans 12:4-21 For even as we have many members in one body, and all the members have not the same office: (5) so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and severally members one of another. (6) And having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of our faith; (7) or ministry, let us give ourselves to our ministry; or he that teacheth, to his teaching; (8) or he that exhorteth, to his exhorting: he that giveth, let him do it with liberality; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness. (9) Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. (10) In love of the brethren be tenderly affectioned one to another; in honor preferring one another; (11) in diligence not slothful; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; (12) rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing stedfastly in prayer; (13) communicating to the necessities of the saints; given to hospitality. (14) Bless them that persecute you; bless, and curse not. (15) Rejoice with them that rejoice; weep with them that weep. (16) Be of the same mind one toward another. Set not your mind on high things, but condescend to things that are lowly. Be not wise in your own conceits. (17) Render to no man evil for evil. Take thought for things honorable in the sight of all men. (18) If it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men. (19) Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord. (20) But if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him to drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head. (21) Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

You curse the brethren through your so called prophesy.
Very pathetic strategy you have.
I personally champion intimacy with my savior.
Your catholic methods ( you can only hear God through me) is ancient error.
Stop acting like your mess is God controlling people through you.

I am sensing a spirit of witchcraft operating through you.
No doubt you are hyper narcissism. That is WHY you try to controll and manipulate through false prophecy

How about make a few points which we can all discuss. And start from there and work forward.

That is much better than trying to send people to a thread which is quite large, it is next to impossible to discuss large posts with alot of info. let alone things like that.

Thee problem wiht this is it is next to impossible to discuss each point adequitely.. You come across as pushy not willing to discuss. Again, would be much better to make it small. and go from there.

Also. It is dangerous to follow peoples links, Never know what is there, It is not recommended.

Again, You can not discuss anythign this way, You can do that in a blog. But in a discussion forum, you have destroyed any discussion before it even starts.

The word forever is used two ways.... in respect to two Genesis's or beginnings.

Forever can mean as long as the corrupted beginning has not gone up in smoke or annihilated . Or it can mean forever as in the new heavens and earth. Both where created in the twinkling of the eye. One in view, the other a new light as the glory of God coming on the last day .

Like for instance of a Moabite it is said they will not enter the congregation of the Lord for ever. But Ruth a Moabite did enter the new born again generation by faith after the commandment in Deuteronomy..... forever and ever.

Deuteronomy 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever

It do not seem the new beginning or Genesis to be a refurnishing of the corrupted .We do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world. God cannot be discovered under a microscope as if he was a man as us.

But a new creation. No Sun and Moon needed any longer for temporal time keepers

So yes foundations, two beginnings I the twinkling of the eye.

These are the generations (two) of the heavens and of the earth when they(two) were created, in the day(one) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

I would agree but it seems you are trying to apply a literal number to the signified phrase "thousand years". The number metaphor "thousand" is used throughout the scriptures represents a un-know .He will come like as a thief in the night just as in the days of Noah on the last day .

Yes every error has amazing examples .
Every one of them.
You are saying certain women are "Gods anointed sisters" ?
The BIBLE (Inspired HS writings) use " brethren",referring to the church.

My point is she is adding That all by herself to enforce her narcessistic agenda.

No brainer.
You,engage questions robotically by referrals.
You direct members AWAY from the forum.

Here are the verses to your thief in the night:

1 Thess. 5:1-3 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

But this was only addressing worldly people. What do the next verses say about believers?

1 Thess. 5:4-7 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night."

The thousand years stated in Rev. 20 is literally 1000 years, not an unknown.

No,mat 24 declares angels gather,not Jesus,and the gathering is in heaven,not earth.
A gathering in heaven by angels of saints to descend on horseback to the earth with Jesus
Rev 19 also has this .

Missler is one of the few that is bride centered.
The rapture being the gathering of the bride.
Postribs are not interested.
They are primarily trb centered and secondly anti pretrib centererd.
The rapture as depicted by postribs is an indirect event.
Kind of a inconvienent speed bump.

(That is why you guys disconnect)

Lets see,i challenge you to provide a verse.
You chastize me for some off topic mess.
Got it.

See this is typical.
You provide several examples of your "knowledge" of my points/Doctrine.

Most of it wrong.

Then you make a case that you believe you are appointed to wrath.

Care to start over?
My challenge stands. Provide a single postrib rapture verse.

No,his mame is NOT His purpose. His name is WHO he is. Once you venture out from there you find out WHY he has many names.
That is a component of His purpose. One name is INADEQUATE to encompase his purpose and testimony.
Thus his MANY NAMES.
I knew sooner or later you YESHUA ONLY proponents would actually muddy up your own deal.

Amazingly ironic that you use a piece of the beauty and lovliness of The King,and smear his testimony.
He is BIGGER than your perception and doctrinal box

Thanks Good work.

So then, do you think the coming of Christ at the end of the tribulation in your pre-trib scenario is the third coming or does the second coming last for seven years?

The question is it reasonable to talk about Jesus coming back again and again. Where is this justified in the Bible?

Why would Paul refer to different things when he mentioned the parousia in II Thessalonians 2:1 and 2:8. How is that reasonable? Given the dearth of evidence for pre-trib, is there any evidence that could make a pretrib scenario more likely than the idea that Jesus' 'parousia' in scripture refers to one event?

Where is the onramp for the circular highway of pre-trib reasoning? Do you have a verse that teaches it? Where is the pre-trib rapture mentioned in Revelation? Can you point me to a verse that shows it happening in that book or elswhere that puts its place in the sequence of events before the tribulation? Why shouldn't I take the 'gathering' of II Thessalonians 1:1 to refer to the same gathering that happens after the tribulation in Matthew 24?

At the very least, can you see the reasons why pre-trib seems unreasonable to me? Can you really show scripture that directly places the timing before the tribulation?

The burden of proof is on the pre-tribbers, who want to make the parousia into more than one event or however else they deal with it. The default pre-mil position should be along the lines of post-trib rapture unless there is evidence that there is more than one return of Christ in the Bible.

Please look with open heart and eyes and see why I can not see it your way.

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You look with an open heart and eyes, too. We can pray for each other about that.

I have been pre-trib before. I abandoned it because I could not find it in the Bible, and I began to see some major problems with it, including some scriptures that definitely seem to contradict it.

lol. Your doing everything you can to not ee what is in front of you. Wrath, look at the OT. God used gentile nations to pour out his wrath on Israel because of her sin. The great tribulation is Gods wrath on earth, why do you think it is called the greatest tribulation mankind has ever seen, or will ever see again?

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Do you think God will be angry at the saints who overcome the Devil by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony. If your answer is no, then you should not be using this argument about wrath. If it is yes, then why is God's wrath against them?

Do you believe these saints who overcome the Devil by the blood of the Lamb are appointed to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ? If the answer is 'yes', you should not be using the 'not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ' argument. I've gotta go, but that should be enough for now.

Jesus only "RETURNS" ONCE (that is, to the earth). At that time, His "Parousia/Presence" will be there, for ALL to see.

At the time of our Rapture (that is, "IN THE AIR"), His "Parousia/Presence" will be THERE, that is, ONLY in the presence of "the Church which is His body," to whom the Rapture SOLELY pertains.

presidente said:

Why would Paul refer to different things when he mentioned the parousia in II Thessalonians 2:1 and 2:8. How is that reasonable? Given the dearth of evidence for pre-trib, is there any evidence that could make a pretrib scenario more likely than the idea that Jesus' 'parousia' in scripture refers to one event?

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Paul, in 2Th2, is covering events over the ENTIRE STRETCH of SEVEN YEARS (and the singular EVENT which immediately PRECEDES those years). That is, how the one RELATES [TIME-WISE] to the other.


The 7-yr period covered in 2Th2:

--its BEGINNING (2Th2:9a [Dan9:27a(26)])

--its MIDDLE (2Th2:4 [Dan9:27b])

--its END (2Th2:8 [Dan9:27c])

(all correlating with SAME "beg/mid/end" in Dan9:27[26])

It is a mistake (commonly espoused) to say that Paul was addressing a singular point in time (a singular 24-hr day, for example), in 2Th2.

I HAVE ONLY COME TO AWAKEN, NOT EVERYONE, THOSE IN WHOM MY FATHER HAD GIVEN UNTO ME!!

A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOU, From MY BRIDE... READ THIS, for tomorrow is LITERALLY NOT PROMISED TO YOU, and this maybe your last time to HEAR THESE TRUTHS.... For I AM YAHOSHUA, but who I AM NOT is JESUS/YESHUA, in whom they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER’S Holy Scribes/Scriptures, when I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE, over two thousand years ago. These are the SECRETS and MYSTERIES that I had promised that I WOULD MAKE THEM KNOWN UNTO YOU, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS, and unto the ANCESTORS of the JEWS, that did not RECEIVE ME, when I CAME UNTO THEM, I AM, MESSIAH, but who I AM NOT is JESUS/YESHUA, and My FATHER is NOT A GOD. He is your CREATOR in whom we call ABBA, which means FATHER, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord 'thy Father’ will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints. Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the ‘MYSTERY’, which from the ‘BEGINNING’ of the world hath been hid in ‘the Father’, who “CREATED’ all things by Yahoshua Christ.


Did I not say unto you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be open to you... When you KNOCKED BEFORE, you let in ANOTHER INSTEAD OF ME, which the very word “ANTI" means, “INSTEAD OF". For you have WORSHIPED another father through ANOTHER son, who is NOT ME...

I AM YAHOSHUA, and this is HOW YOU FIND ME... For you FREE WILL TEST is ABOUT TO COME TO A CLOSE, and I have sent My BRIDE in whom I AM PREPARING to bring forth unto you to tell you these SECRETS and MYSTERIES, that were kept from you.. Such as My NAME, saith YAHOSHUA, in whom they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, their JESUS/YESHUA, in whom you have NO IDEA WHO HE TRUTHY IS, saith YAHOSHUA... He is the one in WHOM YOU HAVE BEEN GREEDILY RUNNING BEHIND, only THINKING that he was ME. This is your SPOTS THAT ARE IN YOUR “FEAST OF CHARITY”, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... Jude 1:11-12 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots.

I AM YAHOSHUA, whose NAME is the ONLY NAME, that is carrying the THREE NAMES of the THREE WITNESSES that are NEEDED to BEAR RECORD in HEAVEN as well as in EARTH, for even the DEMONS, that are WITHIN THIS EARTH’S Crust, knows My NAME, and they TREMBLE. Many of you have called this the “TRINITY", and even though I never called it this.. It is okay to do so, because they are the three POSITIONS that I TAKE in this EARTH AGE, saith YAHOSHUA.... THE “FATHER” the “WORD” who I AM, “YOSHUA” as well as the “HOLY SPIRIT” all three NAMES are WITHIN MY OWN NAME. Now where in the name of JESUS/YESHUA, MUHAMMAD, BUDDHA, or any other NAME SHOWING YOU THESE THREE NAMES within their names, I ASK, and ANSWER ME, if thou have any UNDERSTANDING.. For this is YOUR SALVATION WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT, saith YAHOSHUA, and your FREE WILL TEST that you are PRESENTLY FAILING, is about to come to an END. The Test that this WORLD have been in, since the EVENING I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. YOSHUA/OSHUA/Joshua 24:13-15 And I have given you a land for which ye did not labour, and cities which ye built not, and ye dwell in them; of the vineyards and oliveyards which ye planted not do ye eat. Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

For this is HOW YOU FIND ME, who is your TRUE SAVIOR.... For you have been TERRIBLY DECEIVED THROUGH YOUR FREE WILL TEST, that began the EVENING, I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE... Listen to My WORDS, for they are SPIRIT and they are TRUTH, to those in whom My FATHER had given unto Me... For I AM YAHOSHUA, whose NAME is carrying the NAMES of My “FATHER" who is “YAH" as in YAHOVEH/YAHUVEH, the “WORD" who I AM, “YOSHUA" who is also the SON, and the “HOLY SPIRIT" which is SIGNIFIED by the “AH" that is also in My FATHER’S NAME, which “YAH" as in “YAHOVEH/YAHUVEH". Which is also carrying the “SACRED LETTERS" of My FATHER’S “SACRED NAME" which is “YHVH", which is pronounced “YAHVEH". Which is also showing you the “YHVH" which is also in My FATHER’S NAMES.. Y a H o V e H/ Y a H u V e H / Y a H V e H.

For remember I told you that My FATHER had MANY NAMES and so does LUCIFER. This is WHY, it is ONLY THROUGH MY NAME, can you be SAVED. For My FATHER, nor My MOTHER, can help you with this.. For I have been GIVEN THE “KEY” to the KINGDOM, saith YAHOSHUA. This is why, I AM that DOOR that you must come through, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. John 10:1-5 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

For I tell you this truth this day. If My FATHER is BEARING RECORD TO MY NAME.. His “WORD” is “GREATER” then MAN’S, and YES, EVEN YOURS, saith YAHOSHUA, who is the Christ meaning the ANOINTED ONE, unto the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, and unto the ANCESTORS of the JEWS, that did not RECEIVE ME, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...1John 5:7-13 FOR THERE ARE “THREE" WITNESSES THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE “FATHER", THE “WORD", and THE “HOLY SPIRIT": AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the “SPIRIT", and the “WATER" and the “BLOOD": and these THREE all AGREE in “ONE. If we receive the WITNESS of MEN, the “WITNESS" of the FATHER is GREATER: for this is the witness of the FATHER WHICH “HE” HATH “TESTIFIED” of His “SON”. He that believeth on the Son of the FATHER HATH THE “WITNESS” IN “HIMSELF”: he that believeth NOT THE FATHER HATH MADE “HIM”, [meaning the FATHER] A “LIAR"; because he believeth not the RECORD THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIS “SON". AND THIS IS THE “RECORD" THAT THE FATHER HATH GIVEN TO US “ETERNAL LIFE", AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS “SON”. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of the FATHER hath not life. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE ON THE “NAME" OF THE “SON" of the FATHER; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE “ETERNAL LIFE", and that ye may believe on the name of the “SON” of the FATHER.

Continue to Part 2...

Part 2...
I AM YAHOSHUA, BUT WHO I AM NOT is JESUS/YESHUA, in whom they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER’S Holy Scribes/Scriptures, when I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE. Just as they had done unto YOU. When they “ADDED” The Title of GOD, then DECEIVE the WHOLE WORLD into calling your CREATOR, by the Title of GOD. He is NOT A GOD, BIG or little ‘g’. He is your CREATOR in whom we call ABBA, and not GOD, but ABBA, which means FATHER, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ, unto you, who are of the GENTILE
NATIONS/NATIONALITIES called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, the FATHER hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “ABBA", Father. Mark 14:36 And he said, “ABBA", Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Roman 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, “ABBA", Father.

For there is only ONE “GOD” in this “WORLD”, and his name is SATAN. It is SATAN who have been STANDING BEHIND the Title of GOD, in whom they have DECEIVED you into CALLING UPON, through your DEVOTIONS, INSTEAD of your CREATOR in which we call ABBA, which means FATHER. It is SATAN who have BLINDED THE MINDS of My FATHER’S CHILDREN UNAWARES. For even PAUL was WARNING YOU OF THIS, when HE SAID that My FATHER DID NOT DWELL IN YOUR TEMPLES/CHURCHES, that you have built, have you not READ, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...
2 Corinthians 4:4 IN WHOM THE “GOD" OF THIS “WORLD" HATH BLINDED THE MINDS OF THEM WHICH BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of the FATHER, should shine unto them. Acts 17:22-24 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. The FATHER that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands.

Did I not say unto you, to BE NOT ASHAMED a WORKMEN NEEDS NOT BE ASHAMED THAT “RIGHTLY" DIVIDES the WORD OF TRUTH, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is the Christ, meaning the ANOINTED ONE unto the GENTILE NATIONS, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... 2 Timothy 2:14-15 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto the FATHER, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more un fatherliness.

For you have been TERRIBLY DECEIVED. For this WORLD have RECEIVED CAIN, who is SATAN son, who have been HIDING FROM YOU SINCE THE BEGINNING. It is CAIN, Satan son, who have been STANDING BEHIND the NAME of JESUS/YESHUA in whom they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER’S Holy Scribes/Scriptures, when I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE. It is CAIN, who is Satan son, in whom you have been GREEDILY RUNNING BEHIND FOR “REWARD” UNAWARES... For these are the “SPOTS” that are in your “FEAST OF CHARITY” saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures..
Jude 1:11-13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unfatherly among them of all their unfatherly deeds which they have unfatherly committed, and of all their hard speeches which unfatherly sinners have spoken against him.

And this is what I have sent not only a Prophetess unto you, who have come in the spirit of Deborah. She is Deborah in whom My FATHER had sent unto Israel to prepare and ARMY for HIM, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

Now I have sent her spirit back, but this she has come unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, to TESTIFY unto the CHURCHES who I AM, saith YAHOSHUA. For she is many orders unto Me, she is Thy Sister Elect in whom I have said to GREET THEE, as well as My BRIDE, in whom I have promised to send unto you, have you not READ THE END OF MY FATHER’S WORDS, saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, that ANCESTORS, did not RECEIVE ME, when I CAME unto THEM, I AM, MESSIAH, have you not READ, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Revelation 22:16-17 I YAHOSHUA HAVE SENT MINE “ANGEL", [which means a messenger] TO TESTIFY UNTO YOU THESE THINGS IN THE “CHURCHES”. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. AND THE “SPIRIT”, [who I AM, saith YAHOSHUA] and the “BRIDE” [who she is, who is speaking to you now] SAY COME. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

2 John 1:1-2 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth. For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
2 John 1:9-13 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not “the Father”. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Father’s speed: For he that biddeth him “GOD” speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, AND SPEAK FACE TO FACE, that our joy may be full. “THE CHILDREN OF THY ELECT SISTER GREET THEE. Amen.


Shalom.

A Prophetic word for CONFIRMATION.. I AM NOT TAKING YOU OUT OF THIS WORLD, for I have NEVER PROMISED you a RAPTURE, for I have never promised you that I would do that, why would I. For I AM COMING TO YOU, so where are you wanting to go, I ASK, and ANSWER ME, if thou have any understanding. For you are not coming to Me, for I AM coming unto YOU, with Heaven in My hands, saith YAHOSHUA, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. John 17:15-20
I PRAY "NOT" THAT THOU shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word.



I AM YAHOSHUA who is the Christ meaning the ANOINTED ONE, unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH. But who I AM NOT is JESUS/Yeshua in whom they had "REPLACED" MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER'S Holy Scribes/Scriptures, WHEN I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE, which was also when your FREE WILL TEST, had begun. I AM NOT JESUS/Yeshua who have taught you his lies and traditions that is NOT MY FATHER’S WORDS, have you not READ.. For My FATHER is AGAINST THOSE that teach his CHILDREN to "FLY" to "SAVE" their "SOULS". He is AGAINST THIS FOOLISHNESS, saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ, unto YOU, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the Father Scriptures...
Ezekiel 13:20- 23 Wherefore thus saith the Lord thy FATHER; Behold, I am against your pillows, WHEREWITH YE THERE "HUNT" THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM "FLY", and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

For I have PRAYED to My FATHER NOT TO TAKE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, but rather to PROTECT YOU FROM THE EVIL that is about to come unto you soon. And this is ONLY DONE THROUGH MY NAME, saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, who are YOU, and unto the JEWS, that did not RECEIVED ME, when I came unto them, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. John 17:6-9 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. John 17:15:20 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

They have been lying to you in their JESUS/Yeshua name, in whom they had "REPLACED" MY SAVING NAME WITH, THROUGHOUT My FATHER'S Holy Scribes/Scriptures, the EVENING I LEFT YOUR WORLD AGE. Just as they had done unto YOU. When the "ADDED" the Title of GOD, then DECEIVED YOU, into WORSHIPING A "GOD", who BACKWARDS, which Satan loves to do, is the VERY "DOG", in which I told the GENTILE WOMAN, that Ancestors were worshiping a GOD, instead of their "CREATOR", in whom we call ABBA, and not GOD, but ABBA, which means FATHER, have you not read, or have they not taught you this? Saith YAHOSHUA, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... Matthew 15:22-28 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then YAHOSHUA answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

For there is ONLY ONE GOD that is IN THIS WORLD, and his name is SATAN. For he is the GOD that has blinded the MINDS of My FATHER'S CHILDREN, saith YAHOSHUA, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures..
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of the FATHER, should shine unto them. Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our the FATHER into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord thy FATHER, and our Lord YAHOSHUA Christ.

For your "CREATOR" is not called GOD. His "TITLE is "ABBA", which means FATHER, have you not read, or have they not taught you this? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ unto YOU, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, the FATHER hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “ABBA", Father. Mark 14:36 And he said, “ABBA", Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Roman 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, “ABBA", Father.

Shalom

Why do you even bother? Clanging has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.

The other comment there was "Also, Jesus told us no man knows the day, yet if I'm a post tribber than I KNOW the day, because it very clearly is going to be 3.5 yrs from the moment the anti-christ parks his keister in the temple, declaring himself to be god. " I don't know how you want me to respond to that. That's not point of view, and it isn't yours. So I responded to your post, but post 31 does not represent your viewpoint.

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If it was not my point of view I never would have asked. You assume way to much, then expect me to listen to you? It also proves you have barely read anythign I have posted. If you did, you would know otherwise.



It can not make sense, Because WAY to much has to occure from the time we are ressurected. Until we can even come down. Plus as already shown. You have NO ONE LEFT ON EARTH.

You ca spin it how you want, but two many unanswered problems with the thinking that the rapture and return at end of tribulation are the same

It seems like pretrib arguments are built on pretribbers saying this like you did there. "We will meet him in the sky, Not here on earth." That's the kind of thing pretribbers do when they go through passages of scripture, to make them fit with pre-trib.

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Ok, I am done with your nonsense

1. You refuse to answer questions
2. You attack instead of actually trying to discuss
3. You assume things not in evidence (I have never claimed to be pre-trib)
4. Your arguing based on what you have been taught I believe, Not on what we actually do believe.

Good luck, As usual with people. You can never have any kind of normal converstaion because your to busy trying to prove yourself right, then trying to understand what the other person is saying, meaning you have no capacity to discuss things, because your main points are based on false truths.