Contradiction?

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Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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#21
It’s sort of like you have justified yourself as being a Bible doubter by posting stuff like this but that has nothing to do with you being justified by faith in Christ.
Far from it
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
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#22
Again very simple.

1. ALL MAY COME AND BE SAVED

2. BUT ALL WILL NOT COME AND BE SAVED

Why? I already gave you that answer. Now go and preach the Gospel.
Your stuck in the preaching of the kingdom of god, directly from Jesus, to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 10
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#23
Again wrong....your not even in the right time period....Paul’s mystery was not revealed until after Christ’s earthly ministry, and it was to the gentiles, with the fullness of grace
Are you looking for Bible answers or half-baked theories?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#24
Your stuck in the preaching of the kingdom of god, directly from Jesus, to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 10
You are thoroughly confused about the matter. Take some time to really study the Bible, then respond, since I will not waste any more time here.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
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#26
You are thoroughly confused about the matter. Take some time to really study the Bible, then respond, since I will not waste any more time here.
Respectfully, Paul is your appostle, study his words (what have you to lose?) and compare them to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John......there is a reason the message is different
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#27
This also...

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And.....

Galatians 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

??

no contradictions
🙂


all = many (billions is many)

sometimes the word many is being used to represent a large multitude of individuals

we shouldn't get hung up on fruitless semantics


also


in context james is speaking about being justified before men while speaking of a powerless faith which is VOID of any true works from the Holy spirit and filled with lip service

galatians is speaking of being justified before God

it's easy to get confused or conflate issues if we cherry pick verses out of context

(not claiming you did it on purpose)


(in james 2 after speaking of error and respect of persons for money and the worthlessness of a lip service without love...vvvvv)

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#28
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
If you already know the answer, then please tell us. Thanks.
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#29
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
Oh this is simply understanding English.

Let's say 6,000 people are in a group.
That's a lot of people, I suppose you could say "many".
6,000 people is also all of the people in the group.

4,000 people is still "many", but not all.

"All" and "many" are not mutually exclusive descriptions for a group of people.

All means 100% of the people in the group, but "many" does not necessarily mean 'not 100%'.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#30
Thats good cos I cant draw a venn diagram on this ipad to explain it.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#31
James is speaking in terms of being justified before man (they see our works, not our faith)...
James 2:18 NASB
[18] But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Paul is speaking of our justification before God (faith alone).

oh didnt notice you beat me too it😆
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,498
13,436
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58
#32
James is speaking in terms of being justified before man (they see our works, not our faith)...
James 2:18 NASB
[18] But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Paul is speaking of our justification before God (faith alone).
Amen! The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* (y)
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
#33
Oh this is simply understanding English.

Let's say 6,000 people are in a group.
That's a lot of people, I suppose you could say "many".
6,000 people is also all of the people in the group.

4,000 people is still "many", but not all.



"All" and "many" are not mutually exclusive descriptions for a group of people.

All means 100% of the people in the group, but "many" does not necessarily mean 'not 100%'.

Talk about falling down a rabbit hole!

If each scripture is put into context, Matthew 20:28 refers to many, because Jesus Christ, was referring to his people, not all people (yet) the apple of Gods eye, the physical decendents of Abraham, to prepare for the Kingdom to come, which was “at hand”, until they decided to murder him on a cross, and stone Steven. In which, God, turned to the gentile, to make his chosen people jealous, and graft “us” in, through their failure. Saul, future Paul was then chosen, on the road to Damascus, to recieve the mystery, which was held secret, since before the foundations of the earth, to be revealed unto the gentile first, as Paul says in 1 Timothy “who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth...”All” as in the entire world, not just Gods chosen people.
 

Adam4Eve

Active member
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#34
Talk about falling down a rabbit hole!

If each scripture is put into context, Matthew 20:28 refers to many, because Jesus Christ, was referring to his people, not all people (yet) the apple of Gods eye, the physical decendents of Abraham, to prepare for the Kingdom to come, which was “at hand”, until they decided to murder him on a cross, and stone Steven. In which, God, turned to the gentile, to make his chosen people jealous, and graft “us” in, through their failure. Saul, future Paul was then chosen, on the road to Damascus, to recieve the mystery, which was held secret, since before the foundations of the earth, to be revealed unto the gentile first, as Paul says in 1 Timothy “who will have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth...”All” as in the entire world, not just Gods chosen people.
The question the OP asked isn't that complicated.
It's actually very simple.

Keep digging the rabbit hole my friend.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#35
James is speaking in terms of being justified before man (they see our works, not our faith)...
James 2:18 NASB
[18] But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Paul is speaking of our justification before God (faith alone).
No, read the whole context of James, he is talking about how the faith of the saints of old was evident by their actions, or works. They acted in faith and it was accounted to the as righteousness. Like wise if we have faith, we will also follow up with actions, or works.
Work is the evidence of faith.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#36
;
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
Jesus died for all (Hebrews 2:9) , but His death is only applied to those who believe. (Romans 3:22)
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#37
Amen! The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* (y)

(y)(y)(y)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,670
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#38
QUOTE

And faith without works so that no (man) may boast? This seems to be in direct contradiction (which is not possible) with “I (man) will show you my faith, by my works (boasting)

Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thoughts?
James doesn't mean it in a boastful way, he is just saying that true faith will result in good works.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#39
The way i understand it is that Jesus gave His blood for all, or everyone, but only those that choose to believe and accept the gift will be ransomed by His blood.
Many will be ransomed but not everyone will be saved even thou His blood is there for all.
Psalms 53:2-3 shows a different light on who will seek him.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
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#40
No, read the whole context of James, he is talking about how the faith of the saints of old was evident by their actions, or works. They acted in faith and it was accounted to the as righteousness. Like wise if we have faith, we will also follow up with actions, or works.
Work is the evidence of faith.
That doesn't preclude what I said.