Not By Works

Amen sis. And if I may add, Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.

...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16)

That is why Paul said;

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?

...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18

...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24

They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."

...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38

I would therefore say and believe that;

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26

And regarding eternal security, I still can't find it in the bible but eternal salvation IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.

...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25

Isaiah 5:20
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..."

And yes, we are eternally saved IN CHRIST JESUS.
We are not saved by Jesus unless we are IN Jesus.

I do appreciate the above....I must say that this thread makes me feel very hopeless.
I'll be leaving here for a while because, quite frankly, I don't perceive the Holy Spirit in these surroundings, and I need to recharge.

I put some posters up and the concern was with WHO wrote them instead of WHAT was written!
I guess it's WHO proclaims the word of God and now WHAT is proclaimed... This is a problem these days.

It's very confusing that someone who proclaims that we must obey and follow Jesus is scorned by those who say they believe and trust in Him. Of course, believing implies obeying...anyone who understands Greek, as some here state, would know that.

Those who say that it's not necessary to obey God, as was stated by a member just yesterday, seem to feel that THEY are the ones who have understood the message of Jesus and are, in some way or other, the true followers. Topsy turvey world we live in.

God is a perfect moral being...to say that it's not required to obey Him is foolishness.
If we believe in Him, then we must do as He requires us to do.

Yes, I fear easy believism (which some don't even understand) has infected our churches and will drive many into the lying enemy who is achieving his goals ---

Too obvious to teach NOT to believe in God as some will not accept atheism....
so perhaps watering down Christianity till it's not recognizable anymore will work just as well !
So people could THINK they're serving God...and maybe they are....but why be afraid to PROCLAIM it so that everyone reading along can know that God DOES requires obedience. A mystery to me.

Anyway, I hope to see you around.
The voice of truth must be heard.

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Someone on this very thread said that we do not have to obey.
This is what comes from teaching incorrect doctrine.

a is wrong.
b is wrong.
c is wrong.

If we could have been serious we could have discussed each one...
But it's better that I leave now.
One person against a whole gang (group of persons) is more than I can bear at times.

Anyway, I always spoke about obedience and you fought me all the way.

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

YEP...because you attached it to maintaining a salvation that can be lost and or not given until the end.....while ignoring all the truth that after salvation our obedience is tied to reward --> misthos<--pay or wages, and or chastisement......

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

So, do u believe we can lose our salvation?... If we dont endure? Or if wr don't overcome? Endure and overcome what by the way?

Jesus mentions we are to endure until the end; continue to walk in obedience to His Word and ways until our time is fulfilled one way or another.

Rev 3:5 indicates that a name in the book of life can be blotted out.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:10-11

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

it seems that some have a hard time understanding " not of yourself, it is the gift of God ".

but, a lot of the lawyers and work salvationists do not think Paul's letters are Scripture.

many won't admit that ( some will), but many of them do believe Paul's letters have no authority.

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14