Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

So you do agree that, when Paul said in his letters that we have died to the Law, we are no longer under Law, the Law is not made for the righteous, he is referring to the 10 commandments as well?

"We have died to the law". This means that we so identify with Christ that we accept His death on the cross as payment for our sins. Through this we are cleansed of sin, we don't live with it any more, and we do not act on sin. Because this is impossible for us we must daily, constantly, put on Christ and live, act, and be threw Christ.

"We are no longer under law" means that we do not look to our law obedience for salvation, we look to Christ for that.

"The law is not for the righteous" does not mean that we are to ignore the ten commandments, but we have put on Christ in all we think and do. It would be impossible to put on Christ and live through Him and not obey the ten commandments. These commandments under Christ are expanded as we are told in the Sermon on the Mount.

Negative. The apostle Paul fully supports the Ten Commandments, but leaves the Sabbath to the individuals personal conviction.

1. To have no other gods besides Jehovah and 2. to make no images of anything in heaven or on earth, or in the water under the earth, and not to worship idols.
But look at what this man Paul is doing. Listen to what he is saying. He has convinced many people in Ephesus and all over Asia to change their religion. He says the gods that people make by hand are not real. I'm afraid this is going to turn people against our business. But there is also another problem. People will begin to think that the temple of the great goddess Artemis is not important. Her greatness will be destroyed. And Artemis is the goddess that everyone in Asia and the whole world worships." (Act 19:26-27 ERV)

3. not to use the name of God for evil purposes;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1Ti 1:19-20 KJV)

But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. (Col 3:8 KJV)


4. to observe the Sabbath and keep it holy;
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom 14:5 KJV)


5. to honour (respect) one's father and mother;
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. (Eph 6:1-3 KJV)

6. not to commit murder;
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (1Ti 1:9 KJV)


7. not to commit adultery;
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (1Co 6:9 KJV)


8. not to commit theft;
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1Co 6:10 KJV)


9. not to give false evidence;
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. (Eph 4:25 KJV)


10. not to be covetous;
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1Co 6:10 KJV)

One of the reasons I joined CC was to seek help with this topic. This is what I believe, if I have something wrong then please critique the statements:

1. Jesus has no evil in him, never did and never will. Naturally the same for God the Father.

2. If you read of a 'character' claiming to be 'G-d' in the OT and that character has evil thoughts, instructs people to do evil and does evil himself then that character is not Jesus or God the Father. Who would mislead Moses by claiming to be the God of his people? Who would be so deceptive?

Anyone can produce a very substantial list supporting point 2. My personal thoughts are that the scriptures have been written as they are, by God, for a good reason. We are supposed to mature to the point where we recognize evil when we encounter it. Not only recognize it, but detest it. If an individual is pressured into turning a blind eye and they do turn a blind eye then have they overcome?

Okay, in that case, let me repeat my point about Romans 7, bringing it more verses to explain the context

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Verse 7 made it clear that, whenever Paul talks about the law, he is also including the 10 commandments.

Verse 5 said the 10 commandments, if we try to keep it, led to "motions of sin" and bring forth fruit under death

Verse 6 calls the 10 commandments "oldness of the letter" and say we should not serve them.

If you actually regard all those statements as "Paul supporting the 10 commandments", okay then, I guess we should agree to disagree.

Yes, the OT is given to us to tell us about the principles of God, and God is all good, God can be completely trusted with pour lives.

The people God tells about are only used to illustrate how the principles of God works in our life. Every one God uses for this is told about without any "whitewash", but just as they are and they are often good and bad just like us. There is much evil told of in the lives of some of them, and God explains even David as both a good man and a terrible sinner. It is not for us to copy but to see the results of our actions that follow just how our world is made. David had great joys and great sorrows he brought on just as we all do. David was forgiven his sins when he repented, just as we are.

Reading the OT is like opening up a reality book that is exciting because it is true and explains what is hidden from so many people. It is a peek into the spiritual dimension we all live within but many don't perceive. The NT is like a post script to this information, and gives some answers that were only a mystery to OT people.

Paul is writing about the Torah, which admittedly includes the Ten Commandments but is much more beside.

Just as the married woman is bound by the Torah to the living husband; but if the husband dies, she is set free from the Law of her husband. (Rom 7:2 HRB)

But now we have been set free from the penalty of the Torah, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter. (Rom 7:6 HRB)

What shall we say then? Is the instruction sin? Let it not be! But I did not know sin except through the Torah; for also I did not know lust except the Torah said, "You shall not lust." (Rom 7:7 HRB) etc. etc.


Torah
n. Judaism
1. The first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures. See Table at Bible.
2. A scroll of parchment containing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures, used in a synagogue during services.
3. The entire body of religious law and learning including both sacred literature and oral tradition.

I notice you are unwilling to address all the negative points Paul wrote about the Law. He reserved his strongest points against it in Galatians 3.

Galatians 3
Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Enough points against the 10 commandments already?

all right, good point.

but, God the Father still instructed the Disciples to " hear Him' above and beyond the Law ( Moses ) and the Prophets ( Elijah).

Galatians 3 tells us righteousness is based on faith. Verse 24 goes further and tells us:
The (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers (the Levitical Law); for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua. (HRB)

Bang goes the Levitical Law. Gone, ended, finished, of no effect. Sorry you Jews, you are well and truly condemned by your own law.

God's law given to Moses on Mount Sinai remains.

So in the end, you are actually disagreeing that when Paul refers to the Law, he is referring to the 10 commandments as well, Romans 7:7. Is that your stand?

The Ten Commandments given by God are for all time and all nations. Paul confirms it.

However, Paul in his letter to the Galatians chapter 3 verse 24 tells us we are no longer under Levitical Law.
The (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers (the Levitical Law); for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua. (HRB)

Neither do Gentiles come under the rule of the Levite Priests.

Goodbye.

No. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't say He came to fulfill part of the law or some of the law.

He said not one Jot or one Tittle would fall from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

That means, if you are sure that some part of the law has been fulfilled, if you trust in Christs Words, then ALL of the Law has been fulfilled. This necessarily means the 10 commandments as well.

Which is explained in 2 Corinthians 3 pretty exhaustively.

Moses Law given to Moses on Mount Sinai is over for the Christian who accepts the New Covenant in Christ.

The law in this case being the Old Testament, including the prophets all of which Christ fulfilled.

What about the law, the 10 commandments?

Did the Lord fulfill those too?

Yes, of course He did. Otherwise 2 Corinthians 3 could not be written. Otherwise Paul would have had to say, "Except for the 10 Commandments" after every time he talked about law. Otherwise the Lord Jesus would have had to say "Except for the 10 Commandments" after He said not one Jot or Tittle.

The Ten Commandments cannot be fulfilled otherwise everyone would be murdered according to the 6th commandment. And I am pretty sure they have not been ended, otherwise there would be anarchy in the streets.

Then none of the law is fulfilled and you are under all of it.

Or the Lord Jesus Christ mis-spoke.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You've already stated that SOME of the law has been fulfilled. And therefore we are not under that one part.

But the Lord never said He came to fulfill only part of it. He was very specific in saying none of it would be over until ALL of it was over.

Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, he did not say he came to fulfil the Commandments.

You said about 2 Cor. 3 that is simply saying the law on stones has been transferred to the flesh of our hearts, meaning it is forever engraved on our hearts till our dying day i.e. not ended.

When the law is fulfilled, it is ended. So be it Lord. But the commandments still stand.

I have to take the dog for a walk and will get back to you when I get home.

Do you think Christianity is against any of this?

Do you think that those who have died to these commandments and are instead Alive to God are caused to break these?

Do you think a person is more righteous who tries really hard to obey these commandments rather than the one who has received rest from his work at the law and has received the Righteousness of Christ by faith?


This is the point that Paul tries to make to the legalists but they apparently don't quite get it.

Paul would throw away his "righteousness" that came from his work at the law in order to receive the Righteousness that Christ gives by faith.

When a person dies to their work at the law and their carnal understanding of it they can come to Christ and receive Real Righteousness before God. The Lord Jesus Christ TELLS us to do this.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

What fruit?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.