After Hurricane Katrina, Billionaire Warren Buffer was asked which organization was the most effective in helping the suffering and homeless vidtims. Without hesitation, he replied, "The United Methodist Church." In my observation, no denomination has done more to address the African AIDS and malaria than the UMC. Yet the UMC will shortly be ravaged by a massive schism over the gay marriage issue. Evangelicals on this thread and in general seem to tar all UMC members with the same brush, even pledging to have nothing to do with Methodism. What God needs is a faithful evangelical UMC witness, so that the churches victimized by the schism that want to champion the old-time Gospel will survive and thrive. The RC an Baptist sex scandals and the upcoming UMC schism hurt the witness of ALL Christitrians in the eyes of the secular world. So all 3 denominations need our prayers, not our scorn. The UMC church from which retired opposes gay marriage, is solidly evangelical, and has seen many miracles in response to their prayer group.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It is awful to see how we exclude so many churches. The UMC is strong on social justice (helping those in need) which is what Jesus implored us to do. He also said we are to love our Neighbours ... all of them. At one time, Amercan churches were either white or black. We discriminated against and used the bible to justify it. Now it's the LGBQ community. I think we ought to let them into our Churches and let God do the rest.
Not sure what the "old time Gospel" is. I do know that the early church had a very different face than all the churches of today. It would be great if we could all unite rather than divide and judge those who think differently from us. To me, the main issues are:
1) Do we Love God
2) Do we Love our Neighbors (diff,churches, religions/belief systems, people we see as different from "us"). I think Jesus was radically INCLUSIVE. Not EXCLUDING others.
These were Jesus's two greatest commandments. I think we need to try to fullfill them, yet I know that we all fail to from time to time.
Not sure what the "old time Gospel" is. I do know that the early church had a very different face than all the churches of today. It would be great if we could all unite rather than divide and judge those who think differently from us. To me, the main issues are:
1) Do we Love God
2) Do we Love our Neighbors (diff,churches, religions/belief systems, people we see as different from "us"). I think Jesus was radically INCLUSIVE. Not EXCLUDING others.
These were Jesus's two greatest commandments. I think we need to try to fullfill them, yet I know that we all fail to from time to time.
Glad we have Scriptures explaining how we should deal with situations like these:
1 Corinthians 5:
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore [d]purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed [e]for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to [f]keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
We are absolutely to judge those that name themselves as a brother in the Church. But the exact opposite is true for those that are NOT a brother or sister in Christ. THEY should be welcomed so that they can hear the Word and be saved.
And if the offenders repent of their sin, they must be forgiven and accepted back.
So whatever UM individual Churches decide to not only accept homosexuals and the farce of marrying them, but in effect encourage that detestable behavior, those members should LEAVE that Church IMMEDIATELY.
1 Corinthians 5:
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore [d]purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed [e]for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to [f]keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
We are absolutely to judge those that name themselves as a brother in the Church. But the exact opposite is true for those that are NOT a brother or sister in Christ. THEY should be welcomed so that they can hear the Word and be saved.
And if the offenders repent of their sin, they must be forgiven and accepted back.
So whatever UM individual Churches decide to not only accept homosexuals and the farce of marrying them, but in effect encourage that detestable behavior, those members should LEAVE that Church IMMEDIATELY.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
We are absolutely to judge those that name themselves as a brother in the Church. But the exact opposite is true for those that are NOT a brother or sister in Christ. THEY should be welcomed so that they can hear the Word and be saved.
And if the offenders repent of their sin, they must be forgiven and accepted back.
So whatever UM individual Churches decide to not only accept homosexuals and the farce of marrying them, but in effect encourage that detestable behavior, those members should LEAVE that Church IMMEDIATELY. [/QUOTE]
Only God can judge because He is sinless. We (humans) are all sinners. There are many invisible sins, and so, we do not judge those sinners. We judge gay people because their sin is "visible" to us. Leave it in God's hands. I dont think you can encourage gay "behavior" (whatever that means) because you dont know what they do or dont do. To throw them out of the church is to do the exact opposite of what Jesus did. Jesus hung out with sinners and did not say "I wont hang out with you until you stop sinning". No. He modeled the right behaviour as should we all. Unless, and until, I am without sin, I will not judge their "sin". Unless, of course, they are harming another: examples wojuld be murderers, stealers, pedophiles, etc. If, like many divorced christians they are sinning, then no ... I can't do anything about that. They have to see it for themselves. It has been said "you cannot change others. you can only change yourself and that is hard enough.
I dont think I am better than any other sinner. Do you? If you find it detestable, ask yourself why since you dont have to do it. jmho, on this matter and humility is what Jesus asks of us.
And if the offenders repent of their sin, they must be forgiven and accepted back.
So whatever UM individual Churches decide to not only accept homosexuals and the farce of marrying them, but in effect encourage that detestable behavior, those members should LEAVE that Church IMMEDIATELY. [/QUOTE]
Only God can judge because He is sinless. We (humans) are all sinners. There are many invisible sins, and so, we do not judge those sinners. We judge gay people because their sin is "visible" to us. Leave it in God's hands. I dont think you can encourage gay "behavior" (whatever that means) because you dont know what they do or dont do. To throw them out of the church is to do the exact opposite of what Jesus did. Jesus hung out with sinners and did not say "I wont hang out with you until you stop sinning". No. He modeled the right behaviour as should we all. Unless, and until, I am without sin, I will not judge their "sin". Unless, of course, they are harming another: examples wojuld be murderers, stealers, pedophiles, etc. If, like many divorced christians they are sinning, then no ... I can't do anything about that. They have to see it for themselves. It has been said "you cannot change others. you can only change yourself and that is hard enough.
I dont think I am better than any other sinner. Do you? If you find it detestable, ask yourself why since you dont have to do it. jmho, on this matter and humility is what Jesus asks of us.
There is a Huge difference between Christians sinning ( which being human beings they will do ) And Christians affirming doctrines that are against the Word of God..
So yeah you will sometimes see a church leader being caught in a sin like adultery or some other sin.. This does not mean his church preached the doctrines of demons..
It is far more serious if a church leader preaches that sodomy is good and acceptable to God..
So yeah you will sometimes see a church leader being caught in a sin like adultery or some other sin.. This does not mean his church preached the doctrines of demons..
It is far more serious if a church leader preaches that sodomy is good and acceptable to God..
-
1
- Show all
Only God can judge because He is sinless. We (humans) are all sinners. There are many invisible sins, and so, we do not judge those sinners. We judge gay people because their sin is "visible" to us. Leave it in God's hands. I dont think you can encourage gay "behavior" (whatever that means) because you dont know what they do or dont do. To throw them out of the church is to do the exact opposite of what Jesus did. Jesus hung out with sinners and did not say "I wont hang out with you until you stop sinning". No. He modeled the right behaviour as should we all. Unless, and until, I am without sin, I will not judge their "sin". Unless, of course, they are harming another: examples wojuld be murderers, stealers, pedophiles, etc. If, like many divorced christians they are sinning, then no ... I can't do anything about that. They have to see it for themselves. It has been said "you cannot change others. you can only change yourself and that is hard enough.
I dont think I am better than any other sinner. Do you? If you find it detestable, ask yourself why since you dont have to do it. jmho, on this matter and humility is what Jesus asks of us.[/QUOTE]
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.
I dont think I am better than any other sinner. Do you? If you find it detestable, ask yourself why since you dont have to do it. jmho, on this matter and humility is what Jesus asks of us.[/QUOTE]
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.[/QUOTE]
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.[/QUOTE]
-
1
- Show all
I am not. I simply view things differently from you. For every verse that says judge (righteoously, by the way), there many more that say do not judge or what measure you use to judge, you too will be judged with.
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
i follow Christ's teachings more than Paul since I am a Christian and Jesus trumps Paul.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Where did I say that? I said let them into the churches and let God work on them.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Arrogant and judgmental comments, I do not respond to especially when the commenter does not even know me! Humility ... be humble, my man.
Did you even bother to read the Scripture that says we ARE to judge within the Church?
And as it relates to Jesus, we ARE to "hang out" eat with, show love to, the UNSAVED.
Paul made a clear distinction between those who call themselves brothers in Christ, and those who don't.
i follow Christ's teachings more than Paul since I am a Christian and Jesus trumps Paul.
And if you are telling homosexuals within the Church, that what they are doing is ok and you can even marry, you are in fact encouraging them to continue doing sexually immoral detestable behavior.
Where did I say that? I said let them into the churches and let God work on them.
Read the passage I posted, because you are preaching directly against Gods Word.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Arrogant and judgmental comments, I do not respond to especially when the commenter does not even know me! Humility ... be humble, my man.
[/QUOTE]
Arrogant and judgmental comments, I do not respond to especially when the commenter does not even know me! Humility ... be humble, my man.[/QUOTE]
Let me explain it to you young lady.
PAUL"S TEACHINGS ARE CHRIST"S TEACHINGS!!! NOWHERE does Jesus say or do something differently than Paul JESUS was the One who GAVE Paul all his words and instructions.
This is the 3rd time I'll say it, We absolutely want the unsaved person in our Churches!!! You are right, we want them in to hear the Word, become saved, and THEN help them mature, and understand, that the sins they engaged in before, the LIFESTYLE AND PRACTICE of sin they engaged in BEFORE, they must stop. They need to abandon the detestable, ungodly behavior, which in this case is homosexuality, because that is what this thread is about. And if they stumble into it again, acknowledge their sin, we must CONTINUALLY accept them.
But the ABSOLUTE ONE thing we can't do, is tell them that their sin is either ok to engage in, or isn't really sin at all.
I can continue to explain it to you, unfortunately I cannot comprehend it for you.
Arrogant and judgmental comments, I do not respond to especially when the commenter does not even know me! Humility ... be humble, my man.[/QUOTE]
Let me explain it to you young lady.
PAUL"S TEACHINGS ARE CHRIST"S TEACHINGS!!! NOWHERE does Jesus say or do something differently than Paul JESUS was the One who GAVE Paul all his words and instructions.
This is the 3rd time I'll say it, We absolutely want the unsaved person in our Churches!!! You are right, we want them in to hear the Word, become saved, and THEN help them mature, and understand, that the sins they engaged in before, the LIFESTYLE AND PRACTICE of sin they engaged in BEFORE, they must stop. They need to abandon the detestable, ungodly behavior, which in this case is homosexuality, because that is what this thread is about. And if they stumble into it again, acknowledge their sin, we must CONTINUALLY accept them.
But the ABSOLUTE ONE thing we can't do, is tell them that their sin is either ok to engage in, or isn't really sin at all.
I can continue to explain it to you, unfortunately I cannot comprehend it for you.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Conviction is an important word here. I think there very few of us (Christians) that ever had a job that required counseling homosexuals. I have. There are some that feel they are cursed and or unworthy of grace. We can help them.
There are some that regret and are ashamed of their un-natural attraction to members of the same sex. We can help them too.
There are some that claim to be atheists' but really are angry at God. They can be helped if they can forgive themselves and let go of the resentment they have against God.
And finally there are those who are 'A' moral don't care, feel no guilt and would happily spread their agendas and diseases to everyone with pride. They are the enemies. No better than Nazis, clansmen or commies. They have no guilt or respect. They worship sex and depravity. They are a large minority but their propaganda reaches into our churches and schools. They must be stopped!
There are some that regret and are ashamed of their un-natural attraction to members of the same sex. We can help them too.
There are some that claim to be atheists' but really are angry at God. They can be helped if they can forgive themselves and let go of the resentment they have against God.
And finally there are those who are 'A' moral don't care, feel no guilt and would happily spread their agendas and diseases to everyone with pride. They are the enemies. No better than Nazis, clansmen or commies. They have no guilt or respect. They worship sex and depravity. They are a large minority but their propaganda reaches into our churches and schools. They must be stopped!
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
"
They are? In quite a few of Paul's writings he says "this is my opinion". His teachings are reflective of Jesus' teachings but not the exact same thing. No. In fact, many scholars suggest that at least 4 of his letters are forged. Jesus did not directly meet Paul. He did not put his words into Pauls mouth. Jesus teachings were never written down so we have memories of what he said. Paul was a man. Jesus was the Son of God. They are most certainly NOT on the same level.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/december/9.25.html (this article is one of many that speaks to the difference).
They are? In quite a few of Paul's writings he says "this is my opinion". His teachings are reflective of Jesus' teachings but not the exact same thing. No. In fact, many scholars suggest that at least 4 of his letters are forged. Jesus did not directly meet Paul. He did not put his words into Pauls mouth. Jesus teachings were never written down so we have memories of what he said. Paul was a man. Jesus was the Son of God. They are most certainly NOT on the same level.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/december/9.25.html (this article is one of many that speaks to the difference).
-
2
-
1
- Show all
They only claim to be atheists' and refuse to acknowledge him because they won't admit they are ashamed. I heard someone say they are an atheist because God is a judgmental homophobic. They didn't even realize how oxymoronic that sounded.
It was at an open 12 step meeting that had nothing to do with sexuality. They opposed steps 2 & 3 which is recognizing there is a God and seeking his help. If you take God out of the steps it's just psychobabble.
It was at an open 12 step meeting that had nothing to do with sexuality. They opposed steps 2 & 3 which is recognizing there is a God and seeking his help. If you take God out of the steps it's just psychobabble.
-
1
- Show all
Did Paul and Jesus preach the same Gospel? (Evangelical take)
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/did-jesus-preach-the-gospel-of-evangelicalism
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/did-jesus-preach-the-gospel-of-evangelicalism
Read ... read ... read .... history, history of the bible, how it was put together, changes that might have been made ... scholars seek truth. I, like many non fundamentalist christians believe in God, in Jesus but do not believe the bible is innerrant. I also believe in Evolution which does not discount God at all. And in global warming. I don't need the bible to be completely innerrant to believe in God or in Jesus. I am a Red Letter Christian. If you read what the scholars have said on this and if you really look at the bible you will see that certain things are in error. People are errant and over time as the bible was written and rewritten and translated from one language to another, mistakes were made. one prime example is that the sun does not revolve around the earth for which Galileo was put to death for saying. the earth is not 6,000 years old. I cannot believe these things. To do so would be to deny the reality of evolution, that the earth revolves around the sun, etc.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all