Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#88,261
Dec 12, 2013
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#88,261
GodsGrace101 said:
I never said c......read my post.


a, b and d

are 100% correct.
Just because you and some here think it's right...does not make it right.


Salvation is free.
Sanctification is costly.

No sanctification.....no salvation.

If you believe, you must believe ALL Jesus said,,,not pick and choose.
If you do NOT believe,,,you're lost.
Click to expand...
Sure you did..........I said....and what you said follows....

dcontroversal said:
a. You make salvation a faith PLUS to keep or maintain <--False
b. You make salvation losable and kept by what we do<----False
c. You say no one is saved till the end <----False
d. You deny that JESUS finishes and completes the faith in us <----False


GodsGrace101 said:

I don't believe we'll RECEIVE our salvation till the end because it's possible to abandon the faith somewhere down the line.

However the possibility does exist generally...so we won't be sure we're saved till the end of our lives.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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#88,262
justpassinthrough said:
I see the the two-fold step of salvation, from the perspective of Romans 10:10.



For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10



I say two-fold step, because “believe” carries the definition of trust, and commit to obey.



  • believes unto righteousness,
  • and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



Obeying the Gospel is how a person is saved.



Obeying the Gospel is an eternal commitment, likened unto marriage.



It’s a commitment to obey Jesus as our Lord.




JPT
Click to expand...
The above is correct, of course.
It's a good way to understand it.

You like to stick to the bible...this is good.
Sometimes my theology studies get in my way...
But it works both ways...the outcome is the same.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
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Oct 31, 2015
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#88,263
Budman said:
You, once again, contradict yourself. You say one can't know, but then say it "certainly" won't happen to you, then you say it's possible.

This is what your kind of theology does to people. It keeps them in the dark and fearful. They'll always be wondering if they've done enough to "earn" their way. You can't claim one is justified by faith alone, and then turn around and say "but you still can't know for sure".

That is NOT the "good news" of the gospel preached in scripture. To not know, and always fear for your eternal destiny, is TERRIBLE news.
Click to expand...

She never said not know.


She said we receive the result of our faith which is the salvation of our soul in the end.


We are saved by faith in this life, and as long as we continue in the faith, we will receive the end result of that faith, which is the hope of salvation.



  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.



In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9






JPT
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#88,264
Sep 14, 2018
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#88,264
dcontroversal said:
Sure you did..........I said....and what you said follows....

dcontroversal said:
a. You make salvation a faith PLUS to keep or maintain <--False
b. You make salvation losable and kept by what we do<----False
c. You say no one is saved till the end <----False
d. You deny that JESUS finishes and completes the faith in us <----False


GodsGrace101 said:

I don't believe we'll RECEIVE our salvation till the end because it's possible to abandon the faith somewhere down the line.

However the possibility does exist generally...so we won't be sure we're saved till the end of our lives.
Click to expand...
Don't cut out parts of my post.....

This is what dishonest journalists do.

Post my entire statement, or none of it at all.

No wonder you think everybody is dishonest...
YOU are!
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#88,265
Mar 9, 2014
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GodsGrace101 said:
You're 100% wrong...
But I don't care to discuss this with you.

Try reading the CCC instead of going back hundreds of years.
Click to expand...
Don't believe me - look it up. Stop being a coward and face the fact you were wrong.

Second of all, these decrees can NEVER be rescinded, and in fact, were confirmed by Vatican II.

Here's a few more to chew on:

CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified...let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

Enjoy! :)
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#88,266
May 3, 2017
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#88,266
Budman said:
You, once again, contradict yourself. You say one can't know, but then say it "certainly" won't happen to you, then you say it's possible.

This is what your kind of theology does to people. It keeps them in the dark and fearful. They'll always be wondering if they've done enough to "earn" their way. You can't claim one is justified by faith alone, and then turn around and say "but you still can't know for sure".

That is NOT the "good news" of the gospel preached in scripture. To not know, and always fear for your eternal destiny, is TERRIBLE news.
Click to expand...
I agree...This is how I started out , one day saved , next day lost , especially where I was a drinker , I lived in fear...
But then the Word of God spoke , and reassured me , the LORD said to trust in Him , rely on Him , and not my own understanding...
To this day , Ii cannot remember the last time I had a drink , Jesus said this is the day the LORD has made , He said one day at a time , not to worry about tomorrow...
I trust ,lean and rely on Him alone , if it was down to me , I believe I would be dead before my time...
All the glory to God Amen...xox...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#88,267
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#88,267
GodsGrace101 said:
Don't cut out parts of my post.....

This is what dishonest journalists do.

Post my entire statement, or none of it at all.

No wonder you think everybody is dishonest...
YOU are!
Click to expand...
A statement of fact is a statement of fact.............you said it, and the result is the same, regardless of how you concluded that......
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#88,269
#88,269
GodsGrace101 said:
You don't think it would be nice to find a church you like and join it?
Have some real fellowship with others of like-mind?
I wish I had a good church near me.

Are we done with Colossians 1:23?
It doesn't seem any more clear to you than before?
That phrase "If we continue" means nothing?

I say this because as you read the N.T. you'll find these words many times and, surely, they must mean something.

However, as long as you're serving God and feel you're obeying His wishes for you, I'd say it's OK. It's not your doctrine that will save you, but Jesus Himself.

The only problem I have with OSAS is that it tends to water down holiness and God said to be holy as he is holy....Like Jesus said to be perfect....it's a goal to aim for.
Click to expand...
well if you agree with me we are done but i definitely disagree with what you take away from it fran


if we continue until the end in our hope in Jesus <- we are of those who have been redeemed and made new by grace through faith


i have many issues with your doctrine fran


also who said "if you continue" means nothing

i never even implied such a thing



(also what you consider a good church and what i do would sound the same if we describe it. " a congregation which preaches sound doctrine and the truth of the gospel"... but if i heard your doctrine being preached id try to plant some seeds of truth to the preacher and knock the dust off if he denied the promises of God and preached an incomplete or incorrect gospel)
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#88,271
Jan 18, 2011
12,333
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#88,271
GodsGrace101 said:
Don't cut out parts of my post.....

This is what dishonest journalists do.

Post my entire statement, or none of it at all.

No wonder you think everybody is dishonest...
YOU are!
Click to expand...
when you get finished lecturing decon about honesty, maybe you could shoot me a quick apology for falsely accusing me of telling you that you were going to hell, when in fact I never used those words to you.

let's see if you can practice the honesty you preach about.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#88,272
Sep 8, 2018
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#88,272
GodsGrace101 said:
You're 100% wrong...
But I don't care to discuss this with you.

Try reading the CCC instead of going back hundreds of years.
Click to expand...
Even the council of Trent ( a catholic council) doesnt know what the catholics believe! 100% wrong!

The catholic church is an ABSOLUTE joke. It used to say "no salvation outside of the church" now its -> hindus are saved, atheists are saved, just be a nice guy. FOllow the Pope on twitter and stuff.

I just wanna KO the entire clergy of the church to be honest.

I get so tired of reading about Papa that dresses like Mama the fake phony Pope visiting this country and telling us about climate change and peace and this and that. Wont someone tell the Pope to shut his stupid mouth and sit down? Not much love lost between me and the Pope. He is not my enemy. I believe he is GOD's enemy!

That guy is probably leading hundreds of MILLIONS to hell. MILLIONS. Yet he is looked up to by many 'Protestant' christians? I have heard some local Lutheran pastors say "Oh yeah, the Pope said..." WHO CARES what the Pope said?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#88,273
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#88,273
Rosemaryx said:
I agree...This is how I started out , one day saved , next day lost , especially where I was a drinker , I lived in fear...
But then the Word of God spoke , and reassured me , the LORD said to trust in Him , rely on Him , and not my own understanding...
To this day , Ii cannot remember the last time I had a drink , Jesus said this is the day the LORD has made , He said one day at a time , not to worry about tomorrow...
I trust ,lean and rely on Him alone , if it was down to me , I believe I would be dead before my time...
All the glory to God Amen...xox...
Click to expand...
You know.....there are two types of hope portrayed in this thread .......the biblical hope and then the type of hope one has when they buy a lottery ticket......

Biblical HOPE ---> A confident expectation of something GUARANTEED <---Eternal salvation by grace through faith and biblical

Lottery Hope --->Say I believe and then work like h--- and HOPE I make it in the end <---Workers for and salvation losers
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#88,274
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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#88,274
Budman said:
Don't believe me - look it up. Stop being a coward and face the fact you were wrong.

Second of all, these decrees can NEVER be rescinded, and in fact, were confirmed by Vatican II.

Here's a few more to chew on:

CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified...let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

Enjoy! :)
Click to expand...
thRQKCVSAT.jpg

That's all I have to say.

Oh wait. You said to "look it up"....

thRQKCVSAT.jpg
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#88,275
Sep 14, 2018
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#88,275
Hevosmies said:
Even the council of Trent ( a catholic council) doesnt know what the catholics believe! 100% wrong!

The catholic church is an ABSOLUTE joke. It used to say "no salvation outside of the church" now its -> hindus are saved, atheists are saved, just be a nice guy. FOllow the Pope on twitter and stuff.

I just wanna KO the entire clergy of the church to be honest.

I get so tired of reading about Papa that dresses like Mama the fake phony Pope visiting this country and telling us about climate change and peace and this and that. Wont someone tell the Pope to shut his stupid mouth and sit down?
Click to expand...
I'll only say this H,

When the CC stated that,,,there was only ONE christian church, in case you didn't know.
So yes, OUTSIDE the church there was no salvation.
Because those were the atheists.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#88,276
Oct 31, 2015
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#88,276
Budman said:
"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. " (Romans 3:28)
Click to expand...

I hope you can see that the scripture doesn’t say “faith alone”, which was the claim I am refuting.


Faith alone means there is no believing involved.


Faith is a noun.

It is the substance of the salvation we are all hoping for.


Believe is a verb, it is the action that we take that activates the faith we receive from God.



So, by saying “faith alone” you are saying we don’t have to believe.




JPT
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#88,277
Mar 9, 2014
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#88,277
GodsGrace101 said:
View attachment 194799

That's all I have to say.

Oh wait. You said to "look it up"....

View attachment 194800
Click to expand...

In the end, you're a coward Fran. You don't have the moral fortitude to admit you were wrong. Tells us all a lot about your character.

Want to make me eat my words? Post a link from an official Catholic source that says the decrees of the Council of Trent are rescinded.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
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Sep 14, 2018
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#88,278
Budman said:
Perhaps you missed this part of her post:

"so we won't be sure we're saved till the end of our lives."
Click to expand...
I also explained why Mr. Budman.
Maybe you don't understand English very well?
I posted a lot of scripture too...don't you even believe the N.T.??
 
Budman

Budman

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Mar 9, 2014
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#88,279
GodsGrace101 said:
I'll only say this H,

When the CC stated that,,,there was only ONE christian church, in case you didn't know.
So yes, OUTSIDE the church there was no salvation.
Because those were the atheists.
Click to expand...
Wrong yet again. The Catholic Church teaches that without the Sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church, no one can be saved.

You are terrible at this.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#88,280
Oct 31, 2015
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#88,280
Budman said:
Perhaps you missed this part of her post:

"so we won't be sure we're saved till the end of our lives."
Click to expand...

Each of us will stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ to be Judged according to our deeds.



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,




JPT
 
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