Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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517
113
Good morning sister in the Lord, grace and peace to you from Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

As we walk in His word and with His Holy Spirit things become much clearer.
You are a great encouragement to me, and I feel privileged to know you and read your contributions.

What is stunning is the amount of effort that all the contributors here put into this thread.
I hope and pray it can truly reflect to the glory of the King who is our Lord and Saviour.

I am convicted that many stand defeated and their positions are expressed from disappointment and
hurts which have never been resolved. And on this subject, we are encouraged to grow into one family,
in mind thought and heart, desiring to know the will of the Father here on earth.

And I know how hard this is to realise, even for me as a husband with my wife, so how much more when we barely
know each other. But then God is God of the impossible, who overcame sin death for us, so all things
are possible, Amen, and God bless.

And every morning I am staggard to know, God loves us, and has come as Jesus to show us how deeply this
is true and real, Amen, glory to Him, thank you Jesus.
Good morning F,,,
Here it's the afternoon already!
I feel the same way about you...I find that we do need encouragement to continue in God's word.
Your blessings and greeting gave me much comfort.
What alarms me is how this topic is spoken,,,,not the speaking of itself.
It seems to bring out behavior in persons that may not otherwise be there.
I don't understand why.

I know for sure that we could only do our best and God will forgive us our shortcomings.
But to fight those who believe God needs to be obeyed, is totally not understandable to me.

God bless you too Brother.
Christ's love surrounds us with peace, and His joy --
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
nope

still no denomination... just like the last many times we spoke of it
You don't think it would be nice to find a church you like and join it?
Have some real fellowship with others of like-mind?
I wish I had a good church near me.

Are we done with Colossians 1:23?
It doesn't seem any more clear to you than before?
That phrase "If we continue" means nothing?

I say this because as you read the N.T. you'll find these words many times and, surely, they must mean something.

However, as long as you're serving God and feel you're obeying His wishes for you, I'd say it's OK. It's not your doctrine that will save you, but Jesus Himself.

The only problem I have with OSAS is that it tends to water down holiness and God said to be holy as he is holy....Like Jesus said to be perfect....it's a goal to aim for.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,640
3,005
113
58
AMEN......but I will add....

JESUS knew who it was that WOULD NOT BELIEVE and who it was that was NOT CLEAN

ONE that WILL not BELIEVE was NEVER saved and then LOST IT..............

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to same them that believe

ONE MUST BELIEVE to be saved.

Notice the bolded....it does not say who it was that would believe and then fall away............
It seems so many are taken from the Word of God and making say something else...
When I was first truly in the word , and I came to Judas , I knew as I read he was not saved , I just find it hard to see that others doubt this , if they did not , then they would take Gods word for what it says and hear what the LORD is saying , I mean especially those who say they have been walking for years with Him , I just do not get it...xox... ...xox...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,519
19,241
113
Good morning F,,,
Here it's the afternoon already!
I feel the same way about you...I find that we do need encouragement to continue in God's word.
Your blessings and greeting gave me much comfort.
What alarms me is how this topic is spoken,,,,not the speaking of itself.
It seems to bring out behavior in persons that may not otherwise be there.
I don't understand why.

I know for sure that we could only do our best and God will forgive us our shortcomings.
But to fight those who believe God needs to be obeyed, is totally not understandable to me.

God bless you too Brother.
Christ's love surrounds us with peace, and His joy --
That is not a fair assessment Fran.....NO ONE has said or fought against obeying GOD.....this thread is about how ONE actually is saved eternally and the bible is clear....

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE

For with the heart "MIND" man BELIEVES unto righteousness and with the MOUTH confession is made UNTO SALVATION

In the grace you are, HAVING BEEN SAVED BY FAITH, and that NOT of YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT of works lest any man should BOAST

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US

WE ARE SAVED by FAITH to SERVE, OUR WORKS have NOTHING to do with SAVING US or KEEPING US SAVED, but are the RESULTS OF being saved

PLEASE quit misrepresenting us and being deceitful about what we actually believe and teach...........!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,519
19,241
113
It seems so many are taken from the Word of God and making say something else...
When I was first truly in the word , and I came to Judas , I knew as I read he was not saved , I just find it hard to see that others doubt this , if they did not , then they would take Gods word for what it says and hear what the LORD is saying , I mean especially those who say they have been walking for years with Him , I just do not get it...xox... ...xox...
People will see what they want to see....and or what they have been deceived about.....or out of pride refuse to believe....HE that has ears to hear and eyes to see.....JESUS said..........Just like the guy I worked with.........we had numerous rounds of discussions and the final discussion we had he said this....

"You know, I refuse to believe that if I am a decent moral guy that God would send me to hell." And he then said...."This is what my daddy and grandaddy believed, and if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me."

That is the attitude of many that will end up in the pit.............

And the kicker......when My brother and I were young we had a kid named Lenny that lived across the road from us and he was as wild as they come.....we had witnessed to him numerous times about JESUS and surprisingly he was a member of a particular religious charismatic group and he yelled across the street, "I would rather be in hell with my friends than in heaven with a bunch of losers like you."

A few years later he committed suicide by car and a rock wall at about 160 KM an hour.................
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,822
113
God said to be holy as he is holy....Like Jesus said to be perfect....it's a goal to aim for.
You can't "aim" for it, or even achieve it at all based upon your efforts. It's a challenge from God. He's saying if you think you're going to earn your way to heaven, you must be as perfect as He is.

But it's understandable you would think this way, since you said salvation must be earned.

This is a serious question Fran - are you saved?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
It seems so many are taken from the Word of God and making say something else...
When I was first truly in the word , and I came to Judas , I knew as I read he was not saved , I just find it hard to see that others doubt this , if they did not , then they would take Gods word for what it says and hear what the LORD is saying , I mean especially those who say they have been walking for years with Him , I just do not get it...xox... ...xox...
Theologians are also divided on this R.
Personally, I don't like to argue this.
It could be proven either way...and anyway, this is not the thread for it.
It would require its own thread to fully discuss it.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,519
19,241
113
You can't "aim" for it, or even achieve it at all based upon your efforts. It's a challenge from God. He's saying if you think you're going to earn your way to heaven, you must be as perfect as He is.

But it's understandable you would think this way, since you said salvation must be earned.

This is a serious question Fran - are you saved?
According to her own words @GodsGrace101 she does not believe anyone is saved until the end...........she has said this numerous times......

*Note....she asked I tag her when I speak of her so I did
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,822
113
So this is how you stop evil behaviour and sinning. You become one with Jesus and His heart, you let His words dwell within you day and night, so they become who you are. You let the Holy Spirit prompt you and stir your heart so you care and want and see things as they really are.
Yet again, let me know when you've stopped sinning and your own evil behavior.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,165
4,844
113
66
lawton ok
Jesus didn't leave us alone or unarmed. He left us the Holy Spirit and a Great Big Sword: The word of God! It is not like a Catholic missal. Every verse is not an individual message for the day. The Lord, his disciples the prophets and patriarchs before the didn't have stenographers follow the around with notepads waiting to write down every word of wisdom. They spoke in sentences and paragraphs just like we do. A sword must be taken out and polished from the tip to the handguard. Not just in a few places. The Lord is alive and well and his Holy Spirit is still with us. To say otherwise is blasphemy.

I this offends you either you don't understand or you feel convicted and want to lash out. Polish your sword. Ask for the spirit to help. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit deserved to be praised in word and action. They deserve it! Amen?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
That is not a fair assessment Fran.....NO ONE has said or fought against obeying GOD.....this thread is about how ONE actually is saved eternally and the bible is clear....

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE

For with the heart "MIND" man BELIEVES unto righteousness and with the MOUTH confession is made UNTO SALVATION

In the grace you are, HAVING BEEN SAVED BY FAITH, and that NOT of YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT of works lest any man should BOAST

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US

WE ARE SAVED by FAITH to SERVE, OUR WORKS have NOTHING to do with SAVING US or KEEPING US SAVED, but are the RESULTS OF being saved

PLEASE quit misrepresenting us and being deceitful about what we actually believe and teach...........!
Then WHY are you arguing with me?
WHAT DO i SAY that gives those here such grief?

I don't think anybody here is doing works of righteousness.
We're just doing what God would want us to do.

We are saved by faith alone.
We are not KEPT by faith alone.
Faith without works IS DEAD because it's ALONE.
Faith only does not work.
We need love and also hope.

Here are some verses for you. I've got plenty more if you need more.
Do you believe ALL scripture...or just the scripture you personally agree with?
I believe all of it.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Galatians 6:9-10
Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.




Matthew 5:38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.




Luke 6:27-36
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.




1 Peter 3:8-13
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.


Psalm 34:12-16
Who is the man who desires life And loves length of days that he may see good? Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit. Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.



Hebrews 13:16
And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.




1 Peter 2:20
For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.



1 Peter 3:17
For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.



John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.



Luke 6:35
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.




Romans 2:5-11
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;




1 Timothy 6:17-19
Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.





2 Timothy 2:20-21
Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.



James 2:14-21
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?




James 3:13
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.





2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;



Acts 9:36
Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated in Greek is called Dorcas); this woman was abounding with deeds of kindness and charity which she continually did.




Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.





Colossians 1:10-12
so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.




Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.




2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.



2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.




1 Peter 2:13-15
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
She @GodsGrace101 has a Catholic background, lives in a predominantly Catholic area and if I remember right, she attends a nondenominational church now.....I do believe this is what she said

Correct me if I am wrong FRAN
Italy if I remember! My favorite place in Italy is Palermo. Its a large city but its still italian. Rome is too international for my taste!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
3,989
1,822
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Even the catholic church believes we are justified by faith alone.
Wrong.

The Council Of Trent - CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

If you are Catholic and believe one is justified by faith alone, according to them, you are damned.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,519
19,241
113
Theologians are also divided on this R.
Personally, I don't like to argue this.
It could be proven either way...and anyway, this is not the thread for it.
It would require its own thread to fully discuss it.
In all fairness only those not willing to admit the following are in disagreement...

Jesus KNEW who it was that WOULD NOT BELIEVE <----Judas
Jesus knew who was NOT clean <----Judas
Jesus knew who was a devil <---Judas
Jesus knew who would betray him <----Judas
Jesus knew who was THE Son of Perdition <----Judas
Jesus knee who he would chose to fulfill prophecy <---Judas

ONE that would NOT believe, was NEVER saved and then LOST IT

Sirs, what MUST I do to be saved

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
45,519
19,241
113
Then WHY are you arguing with me?
WHAT DO i SAY that gives those here such grief?

I don't think anybody here is doing works of righteousness.
We're just doing what God would want us to do.

We are saved by faith alone.
We are not KEPT by faith alone.
Faith without works IS DEAD because it's ALONE.
Faith only does not work.
We need love and also hope.

Here are some verses for you. I've got plenty more if you need more.
Do you believe ALL scripture...or just the scripture you personally agree with?
I believe all of it.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Galatians 6:9-10​
Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.​
Matthew 5:38-48​
"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
Luke 6:27-36​
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.​
1 Peter 3:8-13​
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.​
Psalm 34:12-16​
Who is the man who desires life And loves length of days that he may see good? Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit. Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.​
Hebrews 13:16​
And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.​
1 Peter 2:20​
For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.
1 Peter 3:17
For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Luke 6:35
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
Romans 2:5-11
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.
2 Timothy 2:20-21
Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
James 2:14-21
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
James 3:13
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
Acts 9:36
Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated in Greek is called Dorcas); this woman was abounding with deeds of kindness and charity which she continually did.
Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Colossians 1:10-12
so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
1 Peter 2:13-15
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance
a. You make salvation a faith PLUS to keep or maintain <--False
b. You make salvation losable and kept by what we do<----False
c. You say no one is saved till the end <----False
d. You deny that JESUS finishes and completes the faith in us <----False