Exploring Christ's Spiritual Laws

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:14d . . Be patient with everyone.

The koinè Greek word for patient is makrothumeo (mak-roth-oo-meh'-o)
which has little to do with getting fed up with people. In James 5:7-8 it
speaks of giving things space to happen in their own good time.

I would say that in this case, makrothumeo speaks of giving people a chance
to either catch on or catch up. For example: we all perfectly understand
what we're saying while those hearing may need to have us restate
ourselves in different words in order to clarify a misunderstanding.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:15 . . See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever
follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Christian conduct isn't a temporary uniform kept in the closet just for
Sunday mornings like the rather odd patrons who wear costumes at Star
Trek conventions. No, Christian conduct is every-day wear: in the home, on
the job, at school, at the beach, at the mall, at the park, at the beach, in
restaurants, in amusement centers, at the zoo, at the circus, et al; in other
words: ever-followed; not just at church on Sunday morning; which makes
ever following that which is good somewhat stressful at first; until it
becomes second nature, i.e. a habit.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:16 . . Rejoice evermore.

I think we'd better include the passage below with the one above.

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy
he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish,
spoil or fade-- kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by
God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in
the last time.

. . . In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may
have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your
faith-- of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by
fire --may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor
when Jesus Christ is revealed. (1Pet 1:3-7)

In other words: regardless of the severity of our misery, we're supposed to
take heart in the fact that it's temporary, that it serves a divine purpose;
and that there's the reality of something much, much better in store for us
down at the end of the tunnel. That's an order; and it's at all times rather
than some times.

NOTE: For those of us whose safety from eternal suffering is in the bag, the
coming salvation spoken of in 1Pet 1:3-7 is most likely the resurrection that
Paul spoke of in Rom 8:23-25, 1Cor 15:12-57, and 1Thess 4:13-18.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:17 . . pray continually

The koiné Greek word for "continually" is adialeiptos (ad-ee-al-ipe'-toce)
which means: uninterruptedly; viz: without omission. Webster's defines
omission as: 1) something neglected or left undone, and 2) apathy toward,
or neglect of, duty.

Believers who pray seldom, or not at all, are like a young man in the military
who never writes home until his parents complain about his silence. I wrote
home so infrequently when I was in the US Army back in the 1960's that my
dad finally threatened to contact my company commander about it. (I
thought that rather out of character for my dad since he never really cared
anything about what I was doing all the years when I lived at home.)

You know, I have to admit, that even if I had a red phone installed in my
home with a direct connection to God's desk, it would gather cobwebs from
lack of use. I sometimes suspect that's one of the reasons trouble comes our
way. It's to provoke some of us to call home.

It's not that I don't like God; it's just that all my life I've been conditioned to
feel peripheral, and important to no one. My natural siblings are just the
opposite. They have always perceived themselves at the center of the
universe-- essential to its existence --while I have always perceived myself
as not even belonging in the universe; let alone being at its center and/or
having anything to do with its existence.

One evening, while attending a single's group at church back in the 1970's,
the leader of the group went around the room asking each of us to name
something special about ourselves. I could not think of a single thing; while
another in the room said everything about themselves was special. They
weren't being vain; they were being honest. That fortunate person had a
very good self image and a healthy appreciation for their own worth.

It's very difficult for Christians like myself to believe that Christ's Father has
any real interest in us. We have always believed ourselves ostracized,
unnecessary, marginal, unwanted, and unimportant-- but we're used to it so
it's no big deal.

But feelings of unimportance are a handicap: not just in life, but in the
spiritual realm too. It is just about nigh unbearable for believers like myself
to comply with 1Thess 5:17 since we simply cannot believe ourselves missed
by anyone; especially Christ's Father who we believe in our hearts must
certainly prefer the company of people far more interesting than ourselves.
But that command applies to everybody whether we think God cares or not.
All must comply; no exceptions.

"Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should
always pray and not lose heart." (Luke 18:1-2)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:18 . . Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for
you in Christ Jesus.

The koiné Greek word for "give thanks" is eucharisteo (yoo-khar-is-teh'-o)
which means to be grateful. This goes much deeper than just common
courtesy. Appreciation is an attitude; which Webster's defines as: to value or
admire highly.

They say every cloud has a silver lining. Whether that's so or not matters
little as one should never let disagreeable circumstances make them bitter
and resentful towards the Bible's God; for example:

"Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the
ground and worshiped. And he said: Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I shall return there. Yhvh gave and Yhvh has taken away. Blessed
be the name of Yhvh. Through all this Job did not sin nor did he condemn
God." (Job 1:20-22)

"Although the fig tree fails to blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the
labor of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no food; the flock shall
be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: yet I will
rejoice in Yhvh, I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)

Regardless of what the unbelieving world may say, think, or feel about the
Bible's God, the one thing He's done for me that I will always sincerely
appreciate is donate His one and only son towards rescuing my soul from a
terrible future.

"For God so cared for the world that He sacrificed His only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God
didn't send His son into the world to condemn it, but to rescue it." (John
3:16-17)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:19 . . Quench not the Spirit.

People were quenching the Spirit long before there was any such thing as a
Christian; even before the Flood.

"Then the Lord said: My Spirit will not contend with man forever" (Gen 6:2)

The Spirit's contention was accomplished by means of preachers, e.g. Abel
(Luke 11:50-51), Enoch (Jude 1:14) and Noah (2Pet 2:5)

Had the antediluvians listened to the preaching that the Spirit made
available to them, the Flood might have been averted.

Nowadays when Christians fail to listen to the preaching and/or teaching
that the Spirit makes available to them, they end up drifting away from God
instead of participating with Him in a joint effort.

"If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not practice the truth" (1John 1:6)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:20 . . Do not despise prophecies.

The koiné Greek word for "prophecies" is propheteia (prof-ay-ti'-ah) which
basically refers to predicting the future; for example: Matt 25:31-46, 1Cor
15:51-52, 1Thess 4:13-17, 2Pet 3:10, Rev 16:18-20, Rev 20:11-15, and
Rev 21:1.

Webster's defines "despise" as (1) to look down on with contempt, loathing,
or aversion, (2) to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful, and (3) to
regard as unworthy of one's notice or consideration.

Just the opposite of relegating prophecy to the status of a superfluous field
of study below one's dignity and/or likely not to hold one's interest; is a
morbid fascination with it to the extent of construing prophecy to mean all
sorts of things except what it actually says in writing.

I'm pretty sure that the prophecies Paul means for us to avoid despising are
bona fide scriptural prophecies rather than crazy stuff that's likely not to be
inspired but rather, the product of some crackpot's fertile imagination.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:21-22 . . Evaluate everything carefully; hold fast to that which is
good; abstain from every form of evil.

The "evaluation" spoken of here should be understood in relation to verse 20
where it's said: "Do not despise prophecies". The NLT's placement of a
comma after "prophecies" is helpful because it puts prophecy and evaluation
in a proper perspective.

In a nutshell: don't be gullible and buy into a prophecy just because it's
gripping or sensational and/or seems reasonable. For starters, make sure
the prophecy is at least in the Bible; anything outside the Bible should
always be eo ipso regarded as suspicious and unreliable.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:25 . . Brethren, pray for us.

I can't help but wonder exactly who Paul addressed as "brethren" in that verse. Was it the whole church in Thessalonica, congregation and all, or limited to the hierarchy? I kind of suspect Paul was speaking to the hierarchy because just up ahead he's going to request that the epistle be read to all the brethren whereas he didn't request prayer from all the brethren. Interesting thought.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:26 . . Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss.

I honestly doubt that Paul actually meant that the hierarchy should
physically kiss the congregation, rather, in a manner speaking, to say "hi"
for Paul from him to them. In America, it's common for friends to end a
letter, or a cell text, or an instagram with XOXOXO; which means hugs and
kisses; which aren't literal, rather, simply well-meant.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Thess 5:27 . . I adjure you by The Lord to have this letter read to all the
brethren.

I think it safe to say that Paul wasn't talking about picking out a verse here
and there as a spring board to a sermon, no, he meant the whole epistle,
not just excerpts.

The word "adjure" has a variety of meanings; they all pretty much relate to
putting someone under a solemn obligation (e.g. Matt 26:63-64) viz: church
officers who neglect reading Paul's epistle to their congregations are in
serious dereliction of duty.

NOTE: Some years ago, before we were married, my Protestant wife invited
her Catholic dad to church. Well; that day, of all days, the minister's sermon
focused on the church's finances.

On the way home, my wife's father commented: Protestants are no different
than Catholics. All they care about is money. He never went back, nor did
my wife feel it wise to ask him to.

I've often wondered how my wife's dad would've felt about Protestants had
the minister that day taught the Bible instead of laying a guilt trip on the
congregation to give his church more money.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Ths 2:1-4 . . Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord
Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon
shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter
as from us, that the day of Christ is at hand.

. . . Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition; who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God,
presenting himself that he is God.

Some religions have a rather bad habit of predicting the Lord's return. For
example the Watchtower Bible And Tract Society predicted his return for
1878, 1881, 1914, 1918 and 1925. Armageddon was predicted for 1975 and
that flopped too.

One of the salient features of the day of Christ is that there will be a one
world religion. All currently known forms of religion will be banned upon
penalty of death. That means Christianity in all its Protestant and Catholic
forms and denominations will be illegal; as well as Islam, Mormonism,
Baha'i, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Scientology, et al, and even atheism
and agnosticism-- everybody will be required to worship that man of sin; the
son of perdition.

The koiné Greek word for "falling away" is apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
which means: defection from truth; viz: apostasy. This is not the same as
heresy. An heretic stays with his church and undermines its unity by subtly
introducing unapproved doctrines; while an apostate doesn't stay, but
instead totally renounces his church, and quite possibly his entire
denomination, and walks away; sort of like a Baptist switching to
Seventh Day Adventism.

In the future; people will apostatize to save their skins and here's why:

"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns
like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of
the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell
in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. And he
performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven
to the earth in the presence of men.

. . . And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs
which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those
who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound
of the sword and has come to life. And there was given to him to give breath
to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and
cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed." (Rev
13:11-15)

In my opinion, the man to fear is not the first beast, but the second because
of his miraculous powers. Anyway since no one on earth at present has
fulfilled any of those predictions, then it's a safe bet that the day of Christ
isn't in progress yet so don't worry about it. In point of fact, believers are
commanded to abstain from worrying about it.

NOTE: The disclaimer below is located in the paragraph 12, under the
heading; "Who is leading God's People today?" of the Feb 2017
Watchtower—Study Edition:

"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in
doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower
Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists
adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did
not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food."

In spite of that disclaimer; faithful, hard working JWs go door to door all
over the globe propagating Watchtower Society teachings as if they're
honest to gosh true and reliable.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Ths 2:15 . . So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which
you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

The "traditions" to which Paul refers are in two categories: (1) word of
mouth, and (2) in writing. Seeing as how Paul and his contemporaries are no
longer available for personal appearances, then the only reliable traditions in
existence are the ones they left us in writing; viz: their letters; i.e. the
epistles written by Paul, Peter, John, James, and Jude.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Ths 3:6-10 . . In the name of The Lord Jesus Christ, we command you,
brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live
according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know
how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with
you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it.

. . . On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that
we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not
have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you
to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man
will not work, he shall not eat."

People unemployed due to circumstances beyond their control are exempt
from that directive. It specifically targets what we here in the USA call a
bum: which Webster's defines as someone who sponges off others not
because they can't find work; but because they have an aversion to work;
viz: they avoid work as if it were an inconvenient imposition on their leisure
time.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Ths 3:11-13 . .We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy;
they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in The Lord Jesus
Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers,
never tire of doing what is right.

I'm pretty sure that the "brothers" in that passage are church officers seeing
as how it speaks of "some among you" which would indicate the
congregation.

Some might not think that holding down a job qualifies as Christianity but it
certainly does, especially when working for a living is categorized as "doing
what is right".

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right
is righteous, just as he is righteous." (1John 3:7)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Thess 3:14 . . If anyone does not obey our commands in this letter, take
special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel
ashamed.

Back then when churches were small cells meeting in private homes rather
than auditoriums seating hundreds of people, it was easy for church officers
to hold their congregation's feet to the fire. Nowadays, forget it. Church
sizes are such that officers haven't a clue what's going on in the lives of
their membership roles. As a result, modern churches are permeated with
conduct unbecoming.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
2Thess 3:15 . .Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a
brother.

Mandatory consequences were usually for the purpose of discipline; viz:
child rearing. So when officers ostracize one of Christ's followers, they
should keep in mind that the errant follower is one of their own: a sibling
around the table in God's home. So wayward followers shouldn't be
permanently culled from the herd as if they're the devil in disguise. They
aren't devils; no, they're just naughty kids that deserve grounding, so to
speak. (cf. 2Cor 2:6-11)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Tim 1:3-5 . . As I urged you when I went into Macedonia— remain in
Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor
give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather
than godly edification which is in faith.

The epistles of Timothy and Titus are sometimes called the pastoral epistles
because Paul's instructions target mainly church managers rather than
congregations.

"no other doctrine" is the information Paul mentioned in another letter.

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were
taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." (2Thess 2:15)

"by letter" would of course include 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus; and all the other
epistles too, including Peter's, James', John's, and Jude's.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,213
979
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
1Tim 2:1-2 . . First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions
and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are
in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all
godliness and dignity.

Not all Christians in the world are peace-loving. But those of us who are
would just like to be left alone by the world's governments so we can go
about the practice of our religion without fear of crack-downs, especially in
communist countries and Arab lands.

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing,
That there's just too little of

(Hal David and Burt Bacharach, 1965)

Well; love is okay; but what the world really needs now is a whole lots more
religious tolerance; and not just for some, but for everyone.
_