Name It and Claim It

Of Jesus is God, then saying he couldn't heal goes against scripture. Since he was, and is God, the scriptures you're referring to are misu derstood. I'll post on this again, but right now I'm in the middle of a couple of projects.

You do know that if everyone did this, most of the thread would be taken up with people using it for this silly purpose?

Did you know, when you walk away and leave a thread for a while, if you click on the link in the main forum, the site will take you back to the last place you read? Meaning, STOP posting "Read to here!"

Or if you don't believe me. Get a post-it note, put on it the thread name, page and last post read and put it in your computer or fridge for the next time. Cross out and repeat, when you have read more.

Again, if what you say is true, then why don't you go to the nearest hospital and heal everyone? If I had the power you claim, I would happily do so.

You wrote:

"Now, my definition of Person might be off, but the gist of it is that they are three separate beings cohabiting in one body, and Jesus is the body of God the Father, like our physical body is to us, because Jesus is the heart of God the Father."

This is called modalism, and is a heresy which the early church dealt with, called Sabellianism.

"In Christianity, Sabellianism in the Eastern church or Patripassianism in the Western church is the belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three different modes or aspects of God, as opposed to a Trinitarian view of three distinct persons within the Godhead."

In fact, God is one being, or ousia in Greek, consisting of three persons, or better, three hypostasis. (Again, in Greek!)

Three beings, as you start above, would mean three separate gods. As for cohabiting in one body?? So the three possess a body and live there? Or what??

Only the Son has a body, and only since the incarnation, when he was born on earth. Neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit have bodies! The Father is not on earth, no need for a body, and the Spirit is a Spirit! No need for a body. And the Son is NOT the body of God! I've never seen such foolish nonsense in my life!

I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you just mixed up, but then you repeat,

"They are three distinct beings."

So you claim three gods in one body, some kind of weirdly possessed body!

I could not be more shocked you wrote that! Till I got to this:

"I received this revelation and more, from God alone. No man showed or told me any of what I learned about how both God and man are made. It was He who spoke to me about these things, but always with scripture to back up what He told me."

Really?? Show me the verses! I can show you 100's showing you how wrong you are. Or give you the titles of 50 advanced scholarly books, delineating the Trinity, since the Bible was written. To say nothing of bragging that you have never listened or studied the history of Christianity or theology. Who brags about being ignorant?

God did NOT give you a revelation, because you are mixed up, and a million miles away from what the Bible actually says about the Trinity, along with thousands of theological scholars for 2 millennia. Something that all the churches, Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, and even Pentecostal all agree on.

I know you are completely and biblically wrong about Word Faith. Tomorrow I will reprint some of the things I wrote in a thread a few years ago here, disproving every stupid out of context idea Word Faith bases it's lies on.

For now, you have completely shown yourself to be an ignorant fool. You know nothing about God. You claim a revelation which is a mixed up mess!!

I've got news for you! Go back and read the whole Bible a few times. God did not pick you out for a special revelation which makes no sense in any language. God is not the author of confusion, and you have completely lost all credibility with this post!! I hope people will see through these lying assertions, which are all made up in your own head. Both Word Faith nonsense and the nature of who God as the Trinity is.

I'm in the middle of my second semester studying the Trinity. But I've never seen something so totally off the wall as this. Study to show yourself approved, instead of deciding God gave you a special revelation, all on your own, which totally conflicts with what the Bible presents as to who God is! Three persons in one being.

PS learn the basics of Christianity before you keep on spouting all your Word Faith heresy!

Looking forward to it.

In some weird way, I actually enjoyed your post.
If you would give me the opportunity, I would be happy to show you, through scripture, what was given to me.
I ask because it's a lot of scripture to go through before I get to the trinity.
I didn't change anything about the triune God we serve, as you suppose. I only added the body part, which is not taught by anyone.
And even though you have already label me as a heretic, no change from before, which is completely understandable, as far as where you're coming from, and the fact that you won't consider what I'm writing might have the slightest hint of truth to it, I will write it anyway, just to show you what was given to me, and how it was presented, as best I can.

Thank you for your explaining. It sounds good. BUT
Some facts are hold me away from this teachings.
1. I cant find any promiss for an believer of Jesus Christ which guarant him a sick and deasease free life on earth.
2. I cant find that Paul ore any other NT writer taught this to the believer.
3. In All healings reports which i found in the NT came healing directly and the believer was not instructet to believe it, while not receive the physical healing.
4. You see in the case of not healing the reason for that in the believers doubt. While Paul and some of his co- workers got sick without that Paul taught them to believe that they are healed. He did not blamed them that they are sick. It seems that Paul accept this sickness as an reality which happens. In case of Timothy he instruct him to drink some wine.
In case of himself he got the answer from Christ, that he will stay with this thorn in flesh. ( whatever it was )

So why I should believe a man made doctrine? Which is able to discourage and destroy the faith of believers.

Btw, I trust the word of God and thats why I cant trust what WOF doctrine is teaching.

Where you got such a teaching from? This is not taught in any form from anyone in the bible.

We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the power might be of God. As long as we abide in this earthen vessel we are subject to the frailties of the vessel. When our earthen vessel is redeemed then we will be free from all the weaknesses of the earthen vessel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1. Can you find any promises guaranteeing they won't or can't have a sick or disease free life?
2. Does that mean no one else is able or allowed to find and teach such to believers?
3. Jesus said, "According to your faith be it done unto you." Is that a non-instruction?
4. Wasn't it wonderful of God to show Paul how to get delivered from the devil's work in his flesh? God did not tell Paul he had to keep the thorn in his flesh, but how to get rid of it. You don't ask God to get rid of the devil for you, you command the devil to leave in Jesus' name, and it will go. We can't do it because we are too weak, but God's power is used in our weakness and inability to fight against an enemy we cannot see or touch.
It is the same thing with salvation as it was for Paul with the demon. God's grace is sufficient for us to get saved as it was for Paul to get delivered from the devil's messanger.
We are too weak, and simply unable to save ourselves, so God, in His grace and mercies, has provided a way for us to receive salvation. The same was available for Paul. God's grace was sufficient to deliver Paul from the devil's pawn, if he took authority over it, through the name of Jesus.
That is a promise of God to His children.
5. If it was a man made doctrine, I wouldn't believe it, but I got these truths straight from the bible.
If your faith was that there is no hell that awaits the unbelievers, then is it a bad thing to destroy a lie?
I understand why most don't listen to the things I write. It's because, in your eyes and many others, I am a evil person teaching heresies, lie, and doctrines of the devil. I don't listen to all of you, for that same reason.
You, on the other hand, are more innocent because of your ignorance of scripture. But because you listen to other vilify me, you have turned me off, so to speak.
6. You just don't understand what is written. If you did, and if you weren't biased against what is written in the bible, the same as that which you say you believe, you would agree with at least some of the things I have written, because everything I have written is straight from scripture.
Again, you put time and era restraints on scripture, and in so doing, strip them of all power to affect your life today, and of all truth.
If they haven't been fulfilled by Jesus' death and resurrection, then they are still in effect today.
Thou shalt not murder, has not been fulfilled in Jesus' death on the cross. So if we murder someone, our act is seen as sin, and the law of sowing and reaping will go into effect. Even against a child of God.
The point is, though the law was written thousands of years ago, we are called to fulfill it in our lives. God doesn't change. What was evil in the days of Moses, is still evil today.
And so it is with the promises concerning WOF. They didn't cease to be true just because they were spoken to the Jews almost 2000 years ago. The laws of faith apply to us today as it did to Abraham thousands of years ago.
But without faith, to all them that don't believe or have refused the knowledge of God's word, yeah, they get sick and die of the same. In God's world, ignorance is not bliss, nor does it save you from the devil or his work. You know, the thing Jesus came to destroy.

You are aware that Word of Faith Theology was created by a Man who attended a Christian Science College?
And, that He read Mary Baker Eddy's Theology into the Bible then into his own books.

I am a former Christian Scientists, and I know it when I see it. In fact, Word of Faith books are very popular among Christian Scientists, and not one has come to Jesus through those books.

"Alice Hubbard, Elbert's second wife, was an integral part of the Roycroft Campus and muse for Elbert's writings. She was a graduate of Emerson College in Boston, MA. It was known then as "Emerson College of Oratory". She graduated in circa 1892. Emerson Collge which was oriented in New Thought, a non-traditional religious discipline that was influenced by transcendentalist philosophy and held as a central tenet that personal understanding of the world was continually evolving. "https://roycroftcampuscorporation.t...n/2009/02/alice-hubbards-emerson-college.html

D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel: A Historical and Biblical Analysis of the Modern Faith Movement

"This book began as McConnell’s master’s thesis when he was a student at Oral Roberts University. He is a Charismatic pastor, so this is an insider’s look at something he finds disturbing. ....

Kenyon attended the Emerson School of Oratory in 1892. There, he was under the influence of Charles Emerson, a Christian Scientist; R.W. Trine, a Gnostic who wrote one of the major books on New Thought; and M.J. Savage, a Unitarian whose church Kenyon attended."https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfo...er-tells-“the-truth-about-the-word-of-faith”/



https://www.google.com/search?q=Ken...Sq0KHck0BmwQ8NMDCHI&biw=1156&bih=470&dpr=1.65

https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/author/thewordonthewordoffaithradio/

"
New Thought was a movement that began after the death of Phineas P. Quimby (1802-66) when a number of his students came together to preserve his teaching. Quimby had developed an alternative system of healing through parapsychology after beginning a career as a mesmerist. Quimby taught that bodily sickness was caused when the mind believed false notions about health, and could be healed by correcting these beliefs in the mind. The movement that sprang from his protégé emphasised, not only health and healing, but also abundance, prosperity, wealth and happiness. The basic presuppositions of New Thought’s system of divine healing are, firstly, God is all reality and in God is no sickness; secondly, man is a part of God and therefore man’s sickness is not a reality; thirdly, healing occurs automatically when men believe the truth about reality.

Quimby labelled his system the ‘science’ of Christ. From Quimby came M. B. Eddy who developed Christian Science as a movement separately from New Thought and founded the Church of Christ, Scientist. From Quimby also came a new generation of faith-healers in the Divine Healing movement, such as E. W. Kenyon, John G. Lake and William M. Branham, who carried the emphasis of Quimby and New Thought into their own Pentecostal healing ministries. "http://talkingpentecostalism.blogspot.com/2008/05/origin-of-prosperity-doctrine-part-v.html

2. See, for example, Phineas P. Quimby, quoted in The Quimby Manuscripts, ed. Horatio W. Dresser (New Hyde Park, NY: University Books, 1969 [orig. 1921]), 32-35, 61, 165, 186, 279, 295. Quimby’s writings in this book were taken from his manuscripts dating between 1846 and 1865. Note the striking parallel in Kenneth Hagin’s remark: “It makes a great deal of difference what one thinks….The reason they [sick people] are not getting healed is that they are thinking wrong.” (Kenneth E. Hagin, Right and Wrong Thinking [Tulsa, OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, 1978], 19.)

Robert M. Bowman Jr. The Word-Faith Controversy: Understanding the Health and Wealth Gospel, Baker Books

This is not rocket science sir. This is very simple, and it takes just a little common sense, if you would use it.
I just showed you where I got it from. It doesn't matter if it was taught by the apostles or not, it's right there in red and white.
It's not like faith, where you have to overlook the obvious in the natural.
Think. What would God's will be in heaven for His people?
Would He want you sick, to teach you a lesson, or to show you that He favors some over you and your loved ones, by healing them and not you?
Remember, God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't favor one over the other, so there has to be a logical reason why He does heal some and not others. And what do you think that might be?
Jesus is the one who told us that God's will for His people on earth is the same as it is for His people in heaven.
If His will for those in heaven is to be sick, then that is what His will is for us on earth. If it is not, then it is not for us on earth.
His will isn't different for us here, than it is for them who are in heaven.
Thy will be done on earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
It's not hard to see if you just think about it a little.

"They’ve [the Faith teachers] all copied from my Dad [E. W. Kenyon]. They’ve changed it a little bit and added their own touch. . . , but they couldn’t change the wording. The Lord gave him [Kenyon] words and phrases. He coined them. They can’t put it in any other words. . . It’s very difficult for some people to be big enough to give credit to somebody else. Ruth Kenyon Houseworth, taped interview, Lynnwood, Wash., Feb. 19, 1982. "

Romans 10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
10 Brothers and sisters, what I want most is for all the people of Israel to be saved. That is my prayer to God. 2 I can say this about them: They really try hard to follow God, but they don’t know the right way. 3 They did not know the way that God makes people right with him. And they tried to make themselves right in their own way. So they did not accept God’s way of making people right. 4 Christ ended the law so that everyone who believes in him is made right with God.

5 Moses writes about being made right by following the law. He says, “The person who obeys these laws is the one who will have life through them.”[a] 6 But this is what the Scriptures say about being made right through faith: “Don’t say to yourself, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’” (This means “Who will go up to heaven to get Christ and bring him down to earth?”) 7 “And don’t say, ‘Who will go down into the world below?’” (This means “Who will go down to get Christ and bring him up from death?”)

8 This is what the Scripture says: “God’s teaching is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart.” It is the teaching of faith that we tell people. 9 If you openly say, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from death, you will be saved. 10 Yes, we believe in Jesus deep in our hearts, and so we are made right with God. And we openly say that we believe in him, and so we are saved.

11 Yes, the Scriptures say, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disappointed.”[c] 12 It says this because there is no difference between those who are Jews and those who are not. The same Lord is the Lord of all people. And he richly blesses everyone who looks to him for help. 13 Yes, “everyone who trusts in the Lord[d] will be saved.”[e]

14 But before people can pray to the Lord for help, they must believe in him. And before they can believe in the Lord, they must hear about him. And for anyone to hear about the Lord, someone must tell them. 15 And before anyone can go and tell them, they must be sent. As the Scriptures say, “How wonderful it is to see someone coming to tell good news!”[f]

16 But not all the people accepted that good news. Isaiah said, “Lord, who believed what we told them?”[g] 17 So faith comes from hearing the Good News. And people hear the Good News when someone tells them about Christ.

18 But I ask, “Did those people not hear the Good News?” Yes, they heard—as the Scriptures say,

“Their voices went out all around the world.
Their words went everywhere in the world.”

19 Again I ask, “Did the people of Israel not understand?” Yes, they did understand. First, Moses says this for God:

“I will use those who are not really a nation to make you jealous.
I will use a nation that does not understand to make you angry.”

20 Then Isaiah is bold enough to say this for God:

“The people who were not looking for me—
they are the ones who found me.
I made myself known to those who did not ask for me.”

21 But about the people of Israel God says,

“All day long I stood ready to accept those people,
but they are stubborn and refuse to obey me.”

I understand what is written, and that is good enough and more than adequate for me to stand on.
I understand what is written, and that is both good enough and more than adequate for me to stand on.

Psalm 37 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
[a] A song of David.
37 Don’t get upset about evil people.
Don’t be jealous of those who do wrong.
2 They are like grass and other green plants
that dry up quickly and then die.
3 So trust in the Lord and do good.
Live on your land and be dependable.
4 Enjoy serving the Lord,
and he will give you whatever you ask for.
5 Depend on the Lord.
Trust in him, and he will help you.
6 He will make it as clear as day that you are right.
Everyone will see that you are being fair.
7 Trust in the Lord and wait quietly for his help.
Don’t be angry when people make evil plans and succeed.
8 Don’t become so angry and upset that you, too, want to do evil.
9 The wicked will be destroyed,
but those who call to the Lord for help will get the land he promised.
10 In a short time there will be no more evil people.
You can look for them all you want, but they will be gone.
11 Humble people will get the land God promised,
and they will enjoy peace.
One of my favorite texts,

Hebrews 10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Jesus Christ—the Only Sacrifice We Need
10 The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things. The law tells people to offer the same sacrifices every year. Those who come to worship God continue to offer those sacrifices. But the law can never make them perfect. 2 If the law could make people perfect, those sacrifices would have already stopped. They would already be clean from their sins, and they would not still feel guilty. 3 But that’s not what happens. Their sacrifices make them remember their sins every year, 4 because it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 So when Christ came into the world he said,

“You don’t want sacrifices and offerings,
but you have prepared a body for me.
6 You are not pleased with the sacrifices of animals killed and burned
or with offerings to take away sins.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am, God.
It is written about me in the book of the law.
I have come to do what you want.’”

8 Christ first said, “You don’t want sacrifices and offerings. You are not pleased with animals killed and burned or with sacrifices to take away sin.” (These are all sacrifices that the law commands.) 9 Then he said, “Here I am, God. I have come to do what you want.” So God ends that first system of sacrifices and starts his new way. 10 Jesus Christ did the things God wanted him to do. And because of that, we are made holy through the sacrifice of Christ’s body. Christ made that sacrifice one time—enough for all time.

11 Every day the priests stand and do their religious service. Again and again they offer the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But Christ offered only one sacrifice for sins, and that sacrifice is good for all time. Then he sat down at the right side of God. 13 And now Christ waits there for his enemies to be put under his power.[a] 14 With one sacrifice Christ made his people perfect forever. They are the ones who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also tells us about this. First he says,

16 “This is the agreement I will make
with my people in the future, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts.
I will write my laws in their minds.”

17 Then he says,

“I will forget their sins
and never again remember the evil they have done.”

18 And after everything is forgiven, there is no more need for a sacrifice to pay for sins.

Come Near to God
19 And so, brothers and sisters, we are completely free to enter the Most Holy Place.[c] We can do this without fear because of the blood sacrifice of Jesus. 20 We enter through a new way that Jesus opened for us. It is a living way that leads through the curtain—Christ’s body. 21 And we have a great priest who rules the house of God. 22 Sprinkled with the blood of Christ, our hearts have been made free from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. So come near to God with a sincere heart, full of confidence because of our faith in Christ. 23 We must hold on to the hope we have, never hesitating to tell people about it. We can trust God to do what he promised.

Help Each Other Be Strong
24 We should think about each other to see how we can encourage each other to show love and do good works. 25 We must not quit meeting together, as some are doing. No, we need to keep on encouraging each other. This becomes more and more important as you see the Day getting closer.

Don’t Turn Away From God’s Son
26 If we decide to continue sinning after we have learned the truth, then there is no other sacrifice that will take away sins. 27 If we continue sinning, all that is left for us is a fearful time of waiting for the judgment and the angry fire that will destroy those who live against God. 28 Whoever refused to obey the Law of Moses was found guilty from the testimony given by two or three witnesses. Such people were not forgiven. They were killed. 29 So think how much more punishment people deserve who show their hate for the Son of God—people who show they have no respect for the blood sacrifice that began the new agreement and once made them holy or who insult the Spirit of God’s grace. 30 We know that God said, “I will punish people for the wrongs they do; I will repay them.”[d] And he also said, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a terrible thing to face punishment from the living God.

Keep the Courage and Patience You Had
32 Remember the days when you first learned the truth. You had a hard struggle with much suffering, but you continued strong. 33 Sometimes people said hateful things to you and mistreated you in public. And sometimes you helped others who were being treated that same way. 34 Yes, you helped them in prison and shared in their suffering. And you were still happy when everything you owned was taken away from you. You continued to be happy, because you knew that you had something much better—something that would continue forever.

35 So don’t lose the courage that you had in the past. Your courage will be rewarded richly. 36 You must be patient. After you have done what God wants, you will get what he promised you. 37 He says,

“Very soon now, the one who is coming
will come and will not be late.
38 The person who is right with me
will live by trusting in me.
But I will not be pleased with the one
who turns back in fear.”

39 But we are not those who turn back and are lost. No, we are the people who have faith and are saved.

Footnotes: