Did Jesus die for the sins of all mankind?

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Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#41
May 27, 2017
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#41
Nehemiah6 said:
Since *all* is mentioned twice in that verse, and *every one* is mentioned once, what you are doing is blatantly twisting the Word of God.

And it does not say "everyone given to Him by the Father", so that is what you wish to add to Scripture. If God had meant that, then He would have said that.

Calvinists should be ashamed for trying to pervert the Gospel.
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The only perversion is coming from your keyboard.
Isaiah does not mention being born again, that does not mean it is not true of them.
When Jesus came down to earth and explained Jn 6;37-44...it was true before the world existed.That covers the description of the Elect Servant of the Lord all through Isaiah.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#42
Jun 24, 2011
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#42
stonesoffire said:
No, I disagree. Unbelievers are atoned for buts it's of no value to them if they die in unbelief. We must be born from above to enter Gods Presence. Only Jesus gives us entrance.

Only unbelief is that sin of blasphemy. Unless there are those who are wicked of a nature that cannot be atoned for. And that's another topic too.
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Unbelievers are not atoned for. But the sin of unbelief is atoned for when the Believer comes to Christ.

Therefore the Atonement is applied to Believers only.

Maybe we are just confused with what Atonement is... and whose Blood it is that Atones...??

You can't limit Christs Blood to Atoning for certain sins but not certain other sins. In my opinion.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#43
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#43
eternally-gratefull said:
That would not be true though.

Because atonementis offered to all. Just because a person did not recieve it, does not mean it was not there for them to take.
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Atonement is sufficient for all.

But Atonement is not applied to all.

Atonement is only applied to Believers.

Therefore, the Atonement is Limited to Believers. Which is what everyone here is saying.

No one is saying that there aren't people who are condemned which are unbelievers.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
#44
Grandpa said:
No. I'm not offended by your different views.

Our views of the bible are pretty close to the same, from what I've seen.

You are honest in what you believe and you don't get your mind changed very easily.

I am the same way. We might bump heads from time to time but its not hard to spot people who are truly of the faith, like you.
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Your a special bro. Sadly I have many of your brothers on Ignore. Because they do not share your attitude of love.

We are brothers, of that I have no doubt, We just have differing views of some bible passages.. But nothing major
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#45
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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#45
LeeLoving said:
Would it be accurate to say that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind?
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You need to define what you mean by dying for the sins.
Jesus was the sacrifice of atonement, given for the people of Israel.
The atonement only applied to those who chose to walk in Gods ways and repented of their sins.

And you can go deeper. Why must Jesus's life be given to bring us back to Him?
What greater sacrifice could the Lord give so that we might trust Him to forgive us, knowing how
deep our rebellion went? Fear is a powerful motivator, but it would betray us.

We come to Christ because He loved us and gave everything to meet us again, if we are willing
to repent, and stay repentant and desire to walk in His ways.

Some think this atonement was a distant act like a gift by a wealthy relative to give us a future.
No. Jesus came to change us,
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#46
Jul 18, 2017
24,444
12,919
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#46
FollowHisSteps said:
Jesus was the sacrifice of atonement, given for the people of Israel.
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We seem to be getting more and more BIZARRE IDEAS on Christian forums. "Given for the people of Israel" while the rest of the world does what? Take some time to study the Bible before saying things like this.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#47
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#47
LeeLoving said:
Would it be accurate to say that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind?
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Yes, He did. If you take the time element away from John 3:16, you will see Christ's blood applied to everyone that will accept it. If you get the total picture of what God is doing, as depicted in the feasts, you will have a picture of the harvest of the earth.

Although, right now, most people are deceived into serving a false Christ. Before they are condemned completely they will have their chance to resist or choose evil. Those that eventually choose evil will be destroyed along with Satan and his cohorts. :cool:
 
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noblenut

Junior Member
#48
Nov 29, 2017
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#48
there are some sins the if Jesus had died for he would not have come back to life. there are things written about in the bible, even the new testament that cannot be forgiven and there is no coming back from
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#49
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
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#49
Where there is no knowlede of the law there is no sin...…..with our Father, ignorance of the law is an excuse at times.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#52
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#52
Grandpa said:
Unbelievers are not atoned for. But the sin of unbelief is atoned for when the Believer comes to Christ.

Therefore the Atonement is applied to Believers only.

Maybe we are just confused with what Atonement is... and whose Blood it is that Atones...??

You can't limit Christs Blood to Atoning for certain sins but not certain other sins. In my opinion.
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I don't mean to be argumentative, just discussing, ok?

Scripture states that God has placed all in one lump of sin. No Jew nor gentile but all....oh shucks...will find the scripture.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

How I've read this, is that God has placed us all in the sin of unbelief. So the one sacrifice is finished for all unbelief. Faith then is the only substance that's in the spiritual realm where Father reigns, and then is the only thing He recognizes.

Atonement then was for all. But, faith frees men to obtain Gods atoning blood.

Was it not unbelief that plunged mankind into the fall? And is not unbelief the root of every sin?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#53
#53
noblenut said:
there are some sins the if Jesus had died for he would not have come back to life. there are things written about in the bible, even the new testament that cannot be forgiven and there is no coming back from
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Name a few
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#56
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
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#56
Men outside of the family in Jesus will be judged by their own deeds and words……………...it may or may not be different for these. Our Father is good all of the time, and only dHe truly knows what good is.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#57
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#57
stonesoffire said:
I don't mean to be argumentative, just discussing, ok?

Scripture states that God has placed all in one lump of sin. No Jew nor gentile but all....oh shucks...will find the scripture.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

How I've read this, is that God has placed us all in the sin of unbelief. So the one sacrifice is finished for all unbelief. Faith then is the only substance that's in the spiritual realm where Father reigns, and then is the only thing He recognizes.

Atonement then was for all. But, faith frees men to obtain Gods atoning blood.

Was it not unbelief that plunged mankind into the fall? And is not unbelief the root of every sin?
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Yes.

That is essentially what I have been saying.

Mercy is for Believers.

Atonement is for Believers.


It is NOT logical and makes no sense to say EVERYONE has been ATONED for but they don't receive any other gifts such as Mercy or Salvation.

These Gifts rely on being ATONED for first and foremost. IF you are Atoned for then God has had Mercy on you. If you are Atoned for you have been Saved.


I do understand the thought process that says everyone is atoned for and all anyone has to do is receive that Atonement. That same thought process can be used for Salvation and all the gifts of God. But that is against scripture, really. Because it is God who Atones. It is God who Saves. It is God who has Mercy on whom He will have Mercy.

Romans 9:15-18
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#58
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#58
Grandpa said:
Yes.

That is essentially what I have been saying.

Mercy is for Believers.

Atonement is for Believers.


It is NOT logical and makes no sense to say EVERYONE has been ATONED for but they don't receive any other gifts such as Mercy or Salvation.

These Gifts rely on being ATONED for first and foremost. IF you are Atoned for then God has had Mercy on you. If you are Atoned for you have been Saved.


I do understand the thought process that says everyone is atoned for and all anyone has to do is receive that Atonement. That same thought process can be used for Salvation and all the gifts of God. But that is against scripture, really. Because it is God who Atones. It is God who Saves. It is God who has Mercy on whom He will have Mercy.

Romans 9:15-18
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
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Do u think maybe this is because He knows the end from the beginning?

Good scriptures!
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#59
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#59
stonesoffire said:
Do u think maybe this is because He knows the end from the beginning?

Good scriptures!
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This is the Way God has made it.

His Ways are far above our Ways and His Thoughts are far above our thoughts.

If you want to make the argument that God has done this because He knows what everyones choices would have been anyway and He denies those who would have denied Him and accepts those who would have accepted Him I suppose all I can say is that the bible doesn't state it that way.

I also want to say that this conversation is NOT for baby Christians, ever... This is for Christians who can stand the meat of the Word. I am sure I have said many things that could offend a baby Christian. But a more mature Christian who knows their bible will surely understand that I am not saying anything that the bible itself does not say.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#60
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#60
Grandpa said:
This is the Way God has made it.

His Ways are far above our Ways and His Thoughts are far above our thoughts.

If you want to make the argument that God has done this because He knows what everyones choices would have been anyway and He denies those who would have denied Him and accepts those who would have accepted Him I suppose all I can say is that the bible doesn't state it that way.

I also want to say that this conversation is NOT for baby Christians, ever... This is for Christians who can stand the meat of the Word. I am sure I have said many things that could offend a baby Christian. But a more mature Christian who knows their bible will surely understand that I am not saying anything that the bible itself does not say.
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Ok. Just to make sure...I'm not suggesting you are wrong. I've read many of your posts and have always been in agreement. But, I'm kind of a frank speaking woman. Am just discussing. Scriptures come to me as I read so I write them.

Frank but feminine. :)
 
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