Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

Justified definition: declared or made righteous in the sight of God. From the Greek word dikaioo-To render just or innocent.
Notice Abraham was justified by works.
There is little to misunderstand in the words, Faith without works is dead-by works was faith made perfect.
James 2:19-24
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Wow you really believe in works for salvation. Abraham was not saved because he offered his son Isaac. Abraham showed that he believed God or he would not have placed Isaac on the altar.

Are we not justified by the grace of God? Did Christ not finish the work required for our salvation?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

I would really appreciate if you would please read the scriptures provided before posting your response. Each scripture makes a distinction between water and Spirit:
Acts 2:38-40
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (water baptism) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13) (Holy Ghost baptism)
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (God is still calling people)
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 10:43-48
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall (future tense) receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
CAN ANY MAN FORBID WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance (John the Baptist's water baptism), saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism) THEY WERE RE-BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS IN WATER.
(AFTER THEY WERE WATER BAPTIZED) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, (Holy Ghost baptism) and prophesied.

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

God left mankind His Word that should be followed.
We are to be obedient, not stubborn and reject the God inspired instructions given by both the Apostles Peter and Paul concerning repentance, water and Holy Ghost baptism.

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

You are simply imputing to the word of God the traditions of men. Holy Spirit baptism is a result of belief not immersion in water. Water baptism follows Holy Spirit baptism as an outward sign to all present that one has confessed Christ as Savior. You are conflating the issue to justify tongues. Neither tongues nor water baptism are required to be saved.

Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Tongues were an outward evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit so that the unbelieving Jews present could not deny that Gentiles were coming to the very same Savior that the Jews had rejected.

Keep reading your scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the truth. As for now you are making water baptism far more important than Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Gods word teaches that no person deserves to be saved. It is only by the grace of God that any are saved. Water baptism has never saved a single soul. Holy Spirit baptism is administered by the Lord Himself the moment we ask Him to save us from our sins. We are in fact considered dead in trespass and sin until the Holy Spirit quickens us unto eternal life.

Eph 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Where is your water baptism?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

It is by the grace of God that man is provided a means of coming back into right standing with God. Man is to believe in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice, and be obedient to the God given instructions recorded in Acts.
Corrections:
1. The Holy Ghost is not automatically received upon belief. Some receive it spontaneously, some upon the laying on of hands, some ask for it.
2. Water baptism does not always follow Holy Ghost baptism. Some will submit to water baptism first and later receive the Holy Ghost. 3. Peter was provided with instructions and sent to tell others how to seek salvation. (Acts 2:1-4, 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)
4. Tongues accomplished the task of confirming the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost, what makes you think that stopped?
3. If water baptism is done only as an outward sign to show others one has confessed Christ then why was the jailer and his family water baptized at midnight?

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

It is clear that you do not believe in salvation by grace apart from works. You completely frustrate the teaching of Ephesians 2. If the Holy Spirit has not quickened you at the moment of belief you have not been made alive in Christ which is to say you remain dead in your sins.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Go back and make certain your salvation. You have not given anything that resembles the gospel to this point.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

garee · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

1) Receiving the word of God and believing God is al one work of the Holy Spirit in the twinkling of the eye.. God is not served with human hands as if he who satisfies all needed something form the clay he is forming Christ in ;

2) Water baptism of John a Levite used as a metaphor to represent the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit Water baptism comes from a old testament ceremonial law anticipating Christ coming as the new high priest from the tribe of Ju dah officially baptized by John a Levite as the last of the new order . Introducing Christ coming as the melchedik as our high priest .Baptism of desire come when a believer has decided to become a member of the Kingdom of priests. Not all Christian are given the gift just like all Levites were not priests.

3) If you look to the old testament foundation it is described as a sign against those who mock God. So with mocking lips he speaks to this people yet for all that the sign confirms they are unbelievers (no faith)

4) His family would first have a desire to be a member of the priesthood before they could participate in John baptism the baptism of water (h20 ) and not the water of the word .The Holy Spirit baptism. two kinds of baptism John's seen, and Holy Spirit not seen.

Remember we look to the things not seen the eternal (faith law) and not to that seen the temporal (walking by sight law)

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

The following questions must be answered in order to understand Eph 1:13:
In whom has one trusted?
What was the word of truth one heard?
What is the gospel of salvation?
The above things and any actions associated with these things are necessary to be sealed with the Holy Ghost.

It is good to keep in mind the record Paul left in his letters to Romans and Colossians as well as Peter's comment in 1 Peter that answer some of the above questions:
Rom 6:3-6
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,

Col 2:11-12
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

Melach said:

I have started a few threads about water baptism. You can find them by clicking on CHRISTIAN FORUMS (Middle top the current screen)
Click on Bible Discussions (second forum listed)
Find Filters (right hand side of screen below the Mark Read and Watch Box)
Click on Filters
Type in Wansvic and they will appear

To show all threads again click the X next to wansvic on the left side of screen.

Hope this helps.

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

All that from Jesus Himself and not one word about water baptism.

You are very religious but not well versed in the simple truth of the gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 18:7-8
And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Rom 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 16:14-15
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Gal 3:27-28
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 10:13-16
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Waggles · Apr 27, 2019

Luke 8 - Oh how true it is ...
9 And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, 10 he [Jesus] said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.
15 As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.
(ESV)

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Water baptism availeth not only the atoning blood of Christ. God saves by grace through faith not baptism of water.

Apostate Israel was very religious but they rejected Christ the Redeemer sent by God. Rejected Jesus because they did not like His message and salvation by grace wholly apart from works. No room for self righteousness in the true gospel of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wansvic · Apr 27, 2019

notuptome said:

Jesus made the following comment in John 12:48:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

God's Word does not contradict itself.
Belief + action to whatever is expressed in scripture = total acceptance of Christ - Harmony.
Belief only - excludes the need to follow instructions given = rejection of Christ's words - Where is the harmony?

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

notuptome · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Jesus has finished all that was required to redeem our souls. We can add nothing to what Jesus has done on our behalf. All we can do is lay aside self and receive the gift of eternal life Christ alone offers.

It's not belief alone it's grace alone. You frustrate grace when you endeavor to add to grace your works that are a filthy rags. That which is unclean cannot produce anything acceptable to God.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Waggles · Apr 27, 2019

Stalemate - Mexican standoff - last scene from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly.

Anyway it is Sunday here downunder and my son and I are going to our local revival meeting (about 35 minutes drive down
the road to another town) where we will enjoy:
singing our own hymns and songs;
teaching of doctrine (a good 35 minute talk from the KJV Bible);
communion service (grape juice no wine);
gifts of diversity of tongues and interpretation (no more than three of each);
gifts of prophecy (God talking again directly to his church)
prayer line where those with needs for themselves or others come to the front for prayer (many many healings and
miracles obtained through this).
Fellowship with other saints.

26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.
Let all things be done for building up. 1Corinthians 14:

garee · Apr 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

Yes the same faithless ones he will judge on the last day.

The harmony is in the father and son working together to bring us the peace of God that surpasses human understanding.

Belief + action is when the Holy Spirit works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Why murmur and cause dispute as if you could see into the hearts of men and know whether they have been forgiven?

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputing: Philippians 2:13-14

Without him we can do nothing. No forgiveness .

garee · Apr 27, 2019

Waggles said:

Stalemate - Mexican standoff - last scene from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly.

Anyway it is Sunday here downunder and my son and I are going to our local revival meeting (about 35 minutes drive down
the road to another town) where we will enjoy:
singing our own hymns and songs;
teaching of doctrine (a good 35 minute talk from the KJV Bible);
communion service (grape juice no wine);
gifts of diversity of tongues and interpretation (no more than three of each);
gifts of prophecy (God talking again directly to his church)
prayer line where those with needs for themselves or others come to the front for prayer (many many healings and
miracles obtained through this).
Fellowship with other saints.

26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.
Let all things be done for building up. 1Corinthians 14:

It is no stalemate or Mexican standoff. Just those who refuse to look to the foundation of the tongues doctrine (Isaiah28) as a sign against them. Confirm the sign and the rest of the doctrine falls into place.

Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned