Question for OSAS people. (from a believer who believes that God does indeed preserve us)

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Dec 27, 2018
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#41
So if you don’t believe salvation is losable, does that mean you believe in OSAS? What is the difference?
I never said I don't believe in OSAS. Read the title of the thread. It says that I am a believer who believes that God preserves us.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#43
The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....

Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us

Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us

Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us

Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do

Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God

Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them

Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD

Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept

Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept

Bible --->Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil

Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep

Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved

Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again

Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved

ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store losable salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!

AND lastly....those in this thread that use Hebrews out of context to teach a losable salvation need to go back to the drawing board
TO be clear, THIS thread has NOTHING to do with losing salvation. Please do not build strawmen here.
The question was to OSAS believers, who don't believe you can lose your salvation, and so far the vast majority disagree with the premise of the OP, which premise you keep trying to defend.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#44
I see, ok, glad u clarified.
Yes, the doctrine of "perserverance of the saints" also known as the security of the believer, is what I hold and it does not teach losable salvation. Thank you for posting and keep it coming, I appreciate your feedback.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#45
Why would one who was genuinely saved by grace, having repented (turned from all his sins and idols) turn back to filth and garbage? And anyone who genuinely believes in Christ cannot "stop believing".

OSAS should be properly stated as the eternal security of THE BELIEVER, not the pretender or the unbeliever. The believer becomes a child of God and must live as such. Therefore anyone who still loves sins and idols must truly repent as in the book of Jonah.
I agree that there is a corrupt form of OSAS which ammounts to antinomianism, and there is correct form of OSAS, which is the doctrine of the security of the believer, also known as the perserverance of the saints.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#46
Guojing, the words below are not addressed to you, (I know that you are sincere and not doing what the person I am addressing has tried to do), they are addressed to someone else.

Just to clarify, the intent of this thread is not to ask whether a person can lose their salvation or not. I am not trying to prove one can lose their salvation, and the OP presupposes security of the believer. If you want to argue losable salvation, feel free, but please don't insinuate that those who believe in perserverance of the saints believe in losable salvation, as some did in another thread. That would be a gross misrepresentation
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#47
Yes, he was saying that Christians are butterflies now, not caterpillars, which means because of the New Birth they have a new diet. That is a VERY GOOD analogy.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#48
Can you see what you are saying? Adam's free gift to all of us was so powerful that neither doing good deeds, nor renouncing Satan, is sufficient for us to be rid of him.

Yet, you are now saying that Jesus's free gift to all of us is less powerful such that we can lose that free gift merely by doing bad deeds or renouncing him?

Is the final Adam less powerful than the first Adam? What do you think?
.BTW, the answer to the questions above in red is no. :)

We are kept by the power of God through faith. (1 Peter 1:5)

but I do not think a true believer would renounce Christ, and if they hypothetically did (which is unthinkable to me, but for the sake of argument I will allow it, though I do not believe it) I think that God would bring them to repent of that, (if they were true believers to begin with.)

Blessings.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#49
.BTW, the answer to the questions above in red is no. :)

We are kept by the power of God through faith. (1 Peter 1:5)

but I do not think a true believer would renounce Christ, and if they hypothetically did (which is unthinkable to me, but for the sake of argument I will allow it, though I do not believe it) I think that God would bring them to repent of that, (if they were true believers to begin with.)

Blessings.
Yes, I hardly know of any Christian who explicitly "renounce Christ". They usually just stop attending church altogether and stop reading the Bible and stop renewing their minds, stop praying etc etc.

Do you consider these people still saved in the end?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#50
Does OSAS mean that we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved? Because I ran into some who support and or defend this view
Of course not. OSAS means that at the moment of salvation God will break both of your legs so you can't jump out of the boat, or blaspheme, or turn away from the Lord, or any of the other things mentioned in Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#51
Yes, I hardly know of any Christian who explicitly "renounce Christ". They usually just stop attending church altogether and stop reading the Bible and stop renewing their minds, stop praying etc etc.

Do you consider these people still saved in the end?
a. Do Christians "usually" stop attending church, stop reading the Bible, stop renewing their minds, stop praying, etc....I don't know that that is correct.

b. It is possible for a Christian to backslide and then return. It is tragic, but true.

c. Many who professed to be Christians were never really regenerated. But that is not for us to judge whether they were or not on individual cases. But we do examine OURSELVES.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#52
Of course not. OSAS means that at the moment of salvation God will break both of your legs so you can't jump out of the boat, or blaspheme, or turn away from the Lord, or any of the other things mentioned in Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The purpose of my question was neither to promote or attack OSAS, but to ask a clarifying question of those who believe in OSAS.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#53
Of course not. OSAS means that at the moment of salvation God will break both of your legs so you can't jump out of the boat, or blaspheme, or turn away from the Lord, or any of the other things mentioned in Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Just to repeat something I said earlier...

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Those who have truly received GRACE have

a. Been taught to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts.

b. Been taught to live soberly, righteousnly in this present world. (or age)

c. Looking for the blessed hope and appearing of our Great God and Saviour.

d. Have been redeemed from all iniquity.

e. Have been redeemed by Christ, with the intent to be a purified, peculiar people, zealous of good works.

f. And we are to teach these thing with all authority, and not allow ourselves to be despised.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#55
Hebrews 3:6-9
King James Version



6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
+++

The verse that says If we hold fast Is talking about the person has all their life to say yes and the SPIRIT IS very patient saying TODAY Is the day If you will hear my voice.

When you get saved It's your spirit that was made perfect and your body will seek to be like the new creation you have become and It's not that you are two people but because your spirit was changed, and now you have a new nature.

The born again Spirit Is what Is causing the new nature (which now that you are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works)
to desire to live right trying to be like the new creation you have become looking to be like the LORD.

CHRIST the vine and we are the branches,members of the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from the VINE and displaying spiritual fruit.

Look up the teaching on Spirit Soul And Body by Andrew Wommack and he explains It Very well.

Paul said that he had wronged no man.

The people In the world at that time that knew him probably would have said he Is lieing,he has persecuted many christians but Paul's nature was changed by GOD and he was created In CHRIST unto good works and that's how he now saw himself.
Yes, That's exactly how I see it. Thanks for posting.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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#56
Of course not. OSAS means that at the moment of salvation God will break both of your legs so you can't jump out of the boat, or blaspheme, or turn away from the Lord, or any of the other things mentioned in Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
No doubt, says John, that they would have continued with us if they were of us.

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
( I hold this to be a DESCRIPTIVE statement describing those who are truly Christ's house)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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#57
Does OSAS mean that we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved? Because I ran into some who support and or defend this view

No, those who believe in eternal security and the true gospel are born again and dont "want" to sin.

It is shameful and painful, the things we onced took joy from now cause us to suffer and God will chasten us when we need correction... not throw His own children into hell like some falsely believe...





All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

_
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

__
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#58
Does OSAS mean that we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved? Because I ran into some who support and or defend this view
Yes, that is the definition of OSAS.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#59
Yes, that is the definition of OSAS.
That is the straw man created by those who believe they can lose their eternal salvation by ceasing to believe on Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#60
yes, very excellent. A Christian will seek to purify themselves (1 John 3:3), not sin all they want. 1 John 3:3 is a descriptive statement.
That is a description of a Christian who abides in the vine.

John 15
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.