How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

You do not know what you are talking about and the blather you are spreading is akin to Walmart filling a creme filled doughnut.......all fluff with no substance.....


Take it up with GOD...he is the one that inspired the following verses that you reject

dcontroversal said:
Doctrine is teaching and that is exactly what the bible does.........

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

i know all to well what i am talking about.
you have dug a bad hole for yourself. if mans doctrine is equal to scripture then we have to say its ok to kill a native amarican family whose only crime was being born native american.
you keep dodging this point like the plague, but you know its true.
i dont need to take it up with the Most High, it was man that invented these doctrines in question.

By 'doctrine of discovery', are you referring to manifest destiny? Just becuse someone says it is biblical doctrine, that doesn't make it so, it has to be proven so.
Mystics use scripture a lot, but wrongly divided.

No actually Jesus refers to Pentecostal saints as sons of God or children of God.

Like I said..take it up with GOD..... and I guess you are too dense to grasp the fact that I never said one word about man's doctrine....so....get your facts straight, be honest with what I quoted and referenced or do not address me......and yes indeed you do need to take it up with God....and then get right

dcontroversal said:
Doctrine is teaching and that is exactly what the bible does.........

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA wow man........have some cake....actually PENTECOSTAL has nothing to do with being a child of GOD

I would think in one sense the slaughter of a kingdom of men that had no source of faith to believe the God of Christian prophecy . In the name of Christianity as if Christians did wrestled against flesh and blood. Like apostate Judaism when Saul sought the approval of men.... a false Zeal for knowing God. And went out murdering men and woman Christian who believed in a God not seen . The kind of religion Cain sought after .Out sight out of mind.

Note..... (purple in parenthesis's) my addition

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers,(the oral traditions of men) and was zealous toward God,(falsely) as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way (Nazarene) unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters(written comandments of men) unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Acts 22:3-5

Paul became the top ten wanted on list to bury out of sight out of mind, walking by sight. They accused him as the ring leader of the Nazarene denomination . They could not see the real ring leader who alone can see into the hearts of all men .

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes::Acts 24: 5

It would appear the thing back fired as the tried to make all thing written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) without effect. They shoot them self in their own foot walking away lame .no longer walked with him.

It seemed to exposed their motives. . . they walked away in unbelief, except for Paul whose new heart was illumined by his new born again spirit. . He then knew the difference between worshipping the God of the fathers (believers) and worshipping the flesh of the fathers as if it was that of our father in heaven. Jesus in Luke called that the unthinkable .Think not. It applies to the catholic fathers today as the same kind who replace the word Abraham for Peter and as the same manner of spirit refuse to call no man on earth father for one is in heaven .They say we call Abraham or Peter to our father. .Jesus said. Think not, they walked away

Its clear they were calling scripture heresy and the law of men as oral traditions the higher authority in a hope of making as it is written by the finger of God without effect. We, I beleive are made aware of that wile of the dark one.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets :Acts 24:13-14

God of my fathers, Not God as my fathers gods in the likeness of men

All things which are written in the law and in the prophets (sola scriptura) The reforming authority in any generation, any situation .

We as Christians learned much from the Native Americans . My idol the Lone Ranger and Tonto were a excellent example of the dynamic duels of peace... the then somewhat American way . Seems to be leaning more today towards upside down again.

Can you sum up your point in one paragraph?
I'm sorry to be brash, but I'd only be guessing if I were to respond to the above.

Never heard of Pentecostal saints. What make them different than non Pentecostal saints other than they as a evil generation seek after wonderments rather than faith?

This is overall an important topic and an important subject. I agree with the basic approach you give.

However, in my own area right now, anyone who starts to get really serious about God or talks about his spiritual experiences is apt to get accused of being a mystic. In fact, some of the best saints of years gone by are now accused of being "mystics".

I am not going to let the fear of being labeled "mystical" keep me from following and experiencing Jesus Christ.

This is what was posted in the OP;

According to Merriam-Webster mysticism is:
1: the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality reported by mystics
2: the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (such as intuition or insight)
3a: vague speculation : a belief without sound basis
b: a theory postulating the possibility of direct and intuitive acquisition of ineffable knowledge or power


Let's take #2 first.

If you DON'T have direct knowledge of God, Spiritual Truth that is attained through your subjective experience then what is your faith in?

Is it in someone elses description of what the bible says? Is it in the majorities opinion of who God is?

No, probably not. Your faith is in your subjective eperience of who God Is and God gave you that for a reason. Nobody has the same knowledge of God or the same knowledge and interpretation of scripture as you do. Because your subjective experiences that went along with your subjective interpretation of the bible are yours and yours alone. A gift.

I have a problem with 3a and b as well. If we all agree that #2 and #3 are mysticism then Christianity IS mysticism.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Objectively, minds are blinded and the vail is over hearts.

Subjectively, when an individual comes to the Lord, vails are taken away and eyes can see.

Christianity is highly subjective. Without the subjective experience of coming to Christ then we would all be blinded and trying to work our way into heaven. Like 99% of the rest of the religious world.

Maybe your definition of subjective and objective is a bit subjective and accordingly, there would be no such thing as objective.
Regardless of our subjective interpretations of what God did objectively in history through 'many infallible proofs' (miracles, eyewitess accounts, fulfilled prophecy) we can in no way relegate the Christiuan faith to the trash bin of mysticism.

I think that God does reveal Himself to us if we are prepared to actually listen to Him.

The quakers did this by having meetings in silence. So as to let Him speak.
Yes there is a danger that we might hear from someone else, but thats why we check scripture and test the spirits. As far as I know we dont need rosaries, or signs, or incense, or to drum Him up by trance music.

Also God is personal and will speak to you in ways you can understand. Thats why he sent Jesus. jesus offers himself for us. When we dont accept or receive His offering, which is himself, it makes things harder and so thats probably why people turn to all these other methods of seeking out God.

God is very easy to talk to and you will hear back from Him if you treat him like a friend. You need to cultivate a relationship with Him. Dont ignore Him.

Christianity is SUPERNATURAL. That is not the same as subjective.

Everything about the Gospel is supernatural -- God intervening in human history through the Lord Jesus Christ. His virgin birth, His miracles, what His supreme sacrifice accomplished, His resurrection, His ascension and exaltation, were all supernatural. The power of the Gospel (accompanied by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit) in bringing souls to Christ is supernatural. And the New Birth is supernatural. The gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life are also supernatural.

MYSTICS DESIRE UNION WITH GOD WITHOUT THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST BEING APPLIED TO THEIR SOULS.

Thus you have mystics in every religion, e.g. the Muslim Sufis and the Hindu yogis.
The original Sufi were basically mystics - people who followed a pious form of Islam and who believed that a direct, personal experience of God could be achieved through meditation. Sufi mysticism endeavoured to produce a personal experience of the divine through mystic and ascetic discipline.
https://www.age-of-the-sage.org/mysticism/sufi_mysticism.html

Yoga means union - union with God
Baba then proceeded to tell the story of His Guru's and his own Tapas, as well as the work of His mission. He then explained that 'Yoga' means 'union' - union with God, union with Universal Consciousness. And Yoga is open to all humanity, all religions, as Swamiji and Swami Sivananda taught.
https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/...on/10-2003/33-yoga-means-union-union-with-god

I don't think a Christian would desire union with God without the Blood of Christ being applied to their souls. It wouldn't be a very long union without it, imo.

That being said, I think merriam webster needs to define mysticism a little better because they pretty much describe Christianity in their definition.

Or perhaps they did it on purpose trying to lump all spirituality into that single definition.

Subjective means that I interpret the reality, the Truth, of a matter through my own experiences and my own deductions and knowledge.

Objective means that a group, large or small, interprets the reality and Truth of a matter through empirical evidence and their own deductions and knowledge.


Maybe we should coin a new term that belongs to Christianity. Perhaps anti-Christian mysticism.

Or maybe just a better definition of what mysticism actually is would be good.

The problem I see That may be the sticking point, is that the Objective God who is there and defines our reality works on us in an objective way, doing an objective conversion, rescuing us from an objective Fall etc. Though our objective experiences from God are received through subjective lenses, they are no less objective.
With mysticism, otoh, there is no experience that can be grounded in objective truth as it is not tied to the Objective Source of Truth, but rather in self led by the lies of the enemy. Hence John 14:6.

"...the Kingdom of God is within you."

What is wrong with contemplative prayer, journaling, soaking, and breathing prayers? I am not exactly sure what soaking prayers are but I have heard people promote listening for God's voice in prayer or listening prayer.

I haven’t heard of soaking prayers but my understanding of soaking is in worship. Music or listening to teachings. Or just waiting in His Presence to hear from above. We do tend to talk more than expecting to hear.

But, the younger generations are using the word mystics now meaning a close walk with Jesus. Different than what our generations thought of what a Christian should be.

This isn’t new age, nor is it spiritualism whatever that is. It’s closeness with Holy Spirit. And Jesus is always glorified.

I do believe Jesus would be called a mystic today if He was here ministering. He was called demonic by some in His day. His teachings powerful with truth that struck to the heart, both those who welcomed Him, and those who hated Him.

And the prayer of Jesus for His body was that we would be one with Him in the same manner He is one with Father.

So are we? This is individual first before it can be corporate.

Be careful in speaking ill of things not understood.

Supernatural to mysticism could just be deeper experiences with the Lord.

But if statues start to weep? Run. Lol