Does this need many corrections?

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D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#1
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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#1
I have taken Matt 24:15-25, Mark 13:14-23, and Luke 21:20-28, and combined them into one and would really like to see someone else either do it themselves so we could compare, or have someone look for a distinctly out of place verse and let me know where and why. As you know they all tell of the same events and time I am just trying to get a little clarity on order of events. So, maybe, thank you, if not, well you have hurt my feelings and that's ok they have been hurt before and I will get over it.
P.S. I have already had the debate with myself and this won and now there is no need to tell me why you think this is wrong cause I cant go back and change it and after reading it I think it did help.


When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet standing in the holy place where he ought not (read and understand) and when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies then know that the desolation thereof is nigh, then let them which be in Judaea flee unto the mountains and let them which are in the midst of it depart out and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Let him which is on the housetop not come down, neither enter therein, to take anything out of his house, and let him that is in the field not turn back for to take up his garment for these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

And woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days for there shall be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people such as was not since the beginning of the world which God created to this time, no nor ever shall be. And pray ye that your flight be not in winter neither on the sabbath day.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elect's sake whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#2
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
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#2
I think it's strange in Luke's account when Jesus tells them not to take anything out of their houses, or return back, he tells them to remember Lots wife.
 
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#3
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
#3
Journeyman said:
I think it's strange in Luke's account when Jesus tells them not to take anything out of their houses, or return back, he tells them to remember Lots wife.
Click to expand...
Remember Lots wife??
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#4
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
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#4
DeighAnn said:
Remember Lots wife??
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what Jesus said. I think it's very odd, because Lots wife is an example of someone who didn't really want to leave Sodom,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation....Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. Mt.24:15-18

Compare with,

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It seems like Jesus was comparing the abomination of desolation to the destruction of Sodom, but why would anyone see the abomination of desolation and want to go toward it?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#5
#5
Journeyman said:
Yeah, that's what Jesus said. I think it's very odd, because Lots wife is an example of someone who didn't really want to leave Sodom,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation....Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. Mt.24:15-18

Compare with,

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It seems like Jesus was comparing the abomination of desolation to the destruction of Sodom, but why would anyone see the abomination of desolation and want to go toward it?
Click to expand...
The same reason people today go toward abomination, and false doctrine. Its not hard to see, if you look at how people are, they love evil and hate righteousness. If you call sin a sin you are called hate filled to this day.
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#6
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
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#6
Journeyman said:
Yeah, that's what Jesus said. I think it's very odd, because Lots wife is an example of someone who didn't really want to leave Sodom,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation....Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. Mt.24:15-18

Compare with,

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It seems like Jesus was comparing the abomination of desolation to the destruction of Sodom, but why would anyone see the abomination of desolation and want to go toward it?
Click to expand...
They would not go toward the abomination of desolation, and Jesus was speaking about the Jews that accept Jesus, unless they had a curiosity about it, but Jesus already told them beforehand if they say here is Christ, or there is Christ, do not believe it.

The abomination of desolation is when the man of sin, New Age Christ, steps in to the Jews temple, and claims to be their God and Messiah, which when the Jews that accept Jesus know about it, or see it, to run like the dickens, for he will persecute all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

Which he does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as his higher power, and is of the occult, believing in evolution, and will try to convince the world he evolved to be greater, and spiritual, by the power of nature, the evolutionary process, and the man Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and avatar, and the New Age Christ will cause all people that follow him to evolve like the man Jesus.

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It will not be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, for they are not wanting to follow the New Age Christ, but Jesus told them to run when they know about the abomination of desolation, and if they are on the housetop, to not go in the house and get anything for that is going back, and hesitating, but run like the dickens, and if they are in the field do not go back, such as to get something, or whatever they think they have to do, but run like the dickens.

Which they will know about the New Age Christ for he established peace in the Middle East between the Jews and the Palestinians, and is working in the world as a great man of peace, and then three and one half years later he steps in to their temple and claims to be God, so the Jews will know about it especially with television, modern day technology, and word of mouth.

So when they know of the New Age Christ stepping in their temple Jesus said do not hesitate, but run, and if you are away from the house do not go back for anything, but go forward, for if they hesitate they could be caught.

That is because as soon as the New Age Christ claims to be God he will right away start persecuting the saints that are with Jesus, so they should go as fast as they can away from the place.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It will not be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but of great persecution.

They should get away as fast as possible, and flee to the mountains, do not go back to the house for anything, and pray you do not have a child that is a baby, or very young, that you have to take with you for that can slow you down, and the winter can slow you down, and possible to be tracked easier, for the New Age Christ will know that they ran, and possibly know that they will run beforehand, and the sabbath day can slow them down, which it could be that they have in place that they can only travel so far on the sabbath since they went back to the Old Testament like in the Old Testament time, and they could get stopped at a checkpoint.

But with the technology we have today the alert will be out fast.

I think when Jesus said remember Lot's wife is to not go back to get anything, but move forward running away as fast as they can, so it is a reference of going backward instead of forward like Lot's wife is a reference of going backward instead of forward, but two different scenarios.
 
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#7
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
#7
Journeyman said:
Yeah, that's what Jesus said. I think it's very odd, because Lots wife is an example of someone who didn't really want to leave Sodom,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation....Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. Mt.24:15-18

Compare with,

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It seems like Jesus was comparing the abomination of desolation to the destruction of Sodom, but why would anyone see the abomination of desolation and want to go toward it?
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. I am going to put that together too. I may just go try and collect them all. Anyway in answer to your question, they don't know it is the abomination of desolation. Satan wants to be worshipped as God. That is what Satan has been wanting from the beginning. His pride blinds him to the fact that that is impossible. Remember Jesus being tempted by him. What did Satan want? What did Satan promise to Jesus if Jesus would only ???

No different when he will be coming here. Take away everything man has told you and read what the bible tells you and what are you left with?

Lucifer/Satan was a protecting cherub. That means he held the highest of positions, he protected the seat of God.
he was more wise and more beautiful God created him the full pattern. he was perfect UNTIL he himself decided he didn't want to protect THE SEAT OF GOD, he wanted to SIT ON IT and to BE WORSHIPPED. So he went about and stole BY DECEPTION (it had to be deception because nothing he promises is possible, he isn't God, he cant create anything he can only tell lies and convince you it is the truth) 1/3 of Gods sons.

How does the bible say he will be when he comes back? He will "NOT be coming when you hear of wars and rumors of war" those are the beginnings of sorrows. NO he will be returning when you hear "PEACE and SAFETY"

The deadly would is fixed. WHO IS LIKE HIM. AND you will watch as he brings peace to the world, so beautiful and so wise and someone who is performing wonders (supernatural) and signs (supernatural) JUST LIKE YOU EXPECT JESUS TO LOOK LIKE AND TO ACT like AND TO BE LIKE AND TO HELP LIKE

THE world will wonder after him. You think the superstars of today are worshipped? nothing compared to WHAT IS COMING. So to take his mark and follow and worship him is the most natural thing to do and everyone in the world is doing it with you, because NO ONE, NOT FOR THE LAST 2 THOUSAND YEARS has seen anyone like this.

What is the famine in the end time? For the word of God. NOT the WORDS of God, but for the TRUTH that come from the WORD of GODS.

I am probably already "flooding", so I'll stop. Just think about it. Read it for yourself. You got an eye. Use it.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#8
Jan 10, 2019
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#8
Locoponydirtman said:
The same reason people today go toward abomination, and false doctrine. Its not hard to see, if you look at how people are, they love evil and hate righteousness. If you call sin a sin you are called hate filled to this day.
Click to expand...
I agree, except people who go to a place of worship don't see themselves going toward abomination and false doctrine.
 
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#9
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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#9
What is the famine in the end time? For the word of God. NOT the WORDS of God, but for the TRUTH that come from the WORD of GODS.

I am probably already "flooding", so I'll stop. Just think about it. Read it for yourself. You got an eye. Use it.[/QUOTE]
After reading another reply I feel I must add some more truth and I am going to give you Chapter and Verse so you find some stuff your self. it yourself.

If satan wants to be worshipped as God he can't be killing people.
Near the very end, if you have been deceived by Satan and you realize the TRUE CHRIST is ABOUT TO ARRIVE, YOU will know that you do not have time to grab anything, you need to get out of town because where Jesus does come it is not going to go well there.

How does Jesus come like a thief in the night? When you very least expect it. If you haven't realized and left town, and you are still there worshipping and believing you are worshipping the TRUE CHRIST and all of a sudden you see the TRUE CHRIST COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN IN THE CLOUDS, and you see the two witnesses who have been lying dead in the street for the 3 1/2 days rising, alive, YOU WILL INSTANTLY KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED. YOU WILL BE SO EMBARASSED YOU WILL WISH FOR MOUNTAINS TO FALL ON YOU TO COVER YOUR SHAME in front of the REAL LORD AND SAVIOR.

Eze 28 Rev 12 Isa 14
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#10
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#10
DeighAnn said:
I have taken Matt 24:15-25, Mark 13:14-23, and Luke 21:20-28, and combined them into one and would really like to see someone else either do it themselves so we could compare, or have someone look for a distinctly out of place verse and let me know where and why.
Click to expand...
1. I have harmonized those three accounts in the past.

2. There is nothing "out of place".

3. The narrative in Luke is less chronological than in the others.

4. Even in Matthew the chronology needs to be properly understood.
 
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#11
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
#11
Nehemiah6 said:
1. I have harmonized those three accounts in the past.

2. There is nothing "out of place".

3. The narrative in Luke is less chronological than in the others.

4. Even in Matthew the chronology needs to be properly understood.
Click to expand...
You are so nice. Thank you
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#12
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
Journeyman said:
I think it's strange in Luke's account when Jesus tells them not to take anything out of their houses, or return back, he tells them to remember Lots wife.
Click to expand...
It is not strange since Lot's wife experienced God's judgment for hesitating, and those who hesitate when judgments are being sent down will also experience judgment.
 
S

speculator

Member
#13
Jun 16, 2019
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#13
Quite likely her fault was hesitation because Jesus had just said to leave quickly house and belongings.

Other we don't know except: "......she was looking around behind him and became a column of salt".

We can imagine she disobeyed her husband and God's instructions not to turn back until out of the district

FOR SURE she was the wife of a very special man and was very near her salvation but with some cause SHE WAS KILLED.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#15
#15
Journeyman said:
I agree, except people who go to a place of worship don't see themselves going toward abomination and false doctrine.
Click to expand...
Sure they do. As much as a person going to pagan worship and idol worship, and people going to eastern mysticism. Ultimately we all know, there is just something inside that tells us.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#16
#16
speculator said:
We must therefore not be so sure to be saved.
Click to expand...
Read 1 John 5:13. We are to know and have assurance. But that assurance has to be grounded in sound doctrine.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#17
Dec 12, 2013
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#17
Forfeiting one's physical life due to disbedience does not equate to being lost.....geesh....
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#18
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
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#18
MattforJesus said:
They would not go toward the abomination of desolation, and Jesus was speaking about the Jews that accept Jesus, unless they had a curiosity about it, but Jesus already told them beforehand if they say here is Christ, or there is Christ, do not believe it.

The abomination of desolation is when the man of sin, New Age Christ, steps in to the Jews temple, and claims to be their God and Messiah, which when the Jews that accept Jesus know about it, or see it, to run like the dickens, for he will persecute all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

Which he does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as his higher power, and is of the occult, believing in evolution, and will try to convince the world he evolved to be greater, and spiritual, by the power of nature, the evolutionary process, and the man Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and avatar, and the New Age Christ will cause all people that follow him to evolve like the man Jesus.

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Lk.17:31-32

It will not be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, for they are not wanting to follow the New Age Christ, but Jesus told them to run when they know about the abomination of desolation, and if they are on the housetop, to not go in the house and get anything for that is going back, and hesitating, but run like the dickens, and if they are in the field do not go back, such as to get something, or whatever they think they have to do, but run like the dickens.

Which they will know about the New Age Christ for he established peace in the Middle East between the Jews and the Palestinians, and is working in the world as a great man of peace, and then three and one half years later he steps in to their temple and claims to be God, so the Jews will know about it especially with television, modern day technology, and word of mouth.

So when they know of the New Age Christ stepping in their temple Jesus said do not hesitate, but run, and if you are away from the house do not go back for anything, but go forward, for if they hesitate they could be caught.

That is because as soon as the New Age Christ claims to be God he will right away start persecuting the saints that are with Jesus, so they should go as fast as they can away from the place.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It will not be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but of great persecution.

They should get away as fast as possible, and flee to the mountains, do not go back to the house for anything, and pray you do not have a child that is a baby, or very young, that you have to take with you for that can slow you down, and the winter can slow you down, and possible to be tracked easier, for the New Age Christ will know that they ran, and possibly know that they will run beforehand, and the sabbath day can slow them down, which it could be that they have in place that they can only travel so far on the sabbath since they went back to the Old Testament like in the Old Testament time, and they could get stopped at a checkpoint.

But with the technology we have today the alert will be out fast.

I think when Jesus said remember Lot's wife is to not go back to get anything, but move forward running away as fast as they can, so it is a reference of going backward instead of forward like Lot's wife is a reference of going backward instead of forward, but two different scenarios.
Click to expand...
I can think of no greater example of anti-Christ, or abomination that causes desolation, than the crucifixion of Jesus. Speaking against Jesus is speaking against the Most High. Desecrating Jesus's body is desecrating the Temple of God.

I don't believe Jesus was overly concerned about avoiding persecution. He said his followers should expect it. He was concerned about those fleeing the rejection of God trying to take their old life along.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
#19
Journeyman said:
I can think of no greater example of anti-Christ, or abomination that causes desolation, than the crucifixion of Jesus. Speaking against Jesus is speaking against the Most High. Desecrating Jesus's body is desecrating the Temple of God.

I don't believe Jesus was overly concerned about avoiding persecution. He said his followers should expect it. He was concerned about those fleeing the rejection of God trying to take their old life along.
Click to expand...
So you think Jesus was speaking symbolically?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#20
Apr 22, 2013
13,569
9,085
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#20
Here is a great piece on this issue from the late Dr. Chuck Missler. One of the much missed points he makes is that the accounts in Luke and Matthew are spoken by Jesus at different times and locations:

Resolving the Olivet Discourse
Epistemology, Part 5:
by Chuck Missler

It is ironic that Jesus’ opening imperative in His “Olivet Discourse” is “Take heed that no man deceive you.”1 This is His command, but it begs a question of means: “How do we avoid that?” There seems to be more conjectures and misunderstandings over this passage than almost any other in the New Testament.

The tools to avoid deception derive from a study of epistemology: the study of knowledge — its scope and limits. Our exploration of this passage will challenge more than simply our hermeneutics alone. It will challenge our grasp of the whole eschatological plan in its entirety.

For many students of eschatology — the study of last things — the so-called Olivet Discourse has proven to be a troublesome passage, with many finding it confusing and ostensibly self-contradictory; a hermeneutical battleground between the dispensationalists and the preterists, etc. The preterists insist that this passage — and the Book of Revelation — has been already fulfilled, and much of it is dismissed by them as simply allegorical. Yet even those who embrace a dispensational view have difficulty reconciling many of the Olivet Discourse passages.

Resolving Power
In optics, the resolving power of a telescope determines its ability to distinguish between two close, but distinct, stars. An apparent single star viewed with a cheap telescope turns out to be a pair of distinctly separate stars when viewed with a telescope of better optical quality. This quality is known as the “resolving power” of its optics.

We seem to have an analogous situation here. In this case, we may benefit by setting aside our presumptions and presuppositions and let the several texts speak for themselves.

A Hazardous Tradition
The traditional “harmonization of the Gospels” is part of the problem. Ever since Augustine, scholars have attempted to meld the four distinct Gospels into a combined narrative. While this can be useful for a cursory review of the life of Christ, it can also result in a myopia of sorts and the Olivet Discourse (recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) is a salient example.

Since Matthew was skilled in shorthand, we tend to lean on his detailed rendering. And yet there seems to be a substantial disparity between his record and that of Luke’s. Numerous elements appear identical in both accounts, so it has been fashionable — for 1700 years — to assume that they both deal with the same event. Attempts to “harmonize” them have continued to yield a treacherous minefield of confusion.

Trusting the Texts
It seems that setting aside all of our presuppositions, and simply trusting the integrity of the texts may improve our “resolving power” in addressing these passages.

Jesus called us to respect the details,2 so let’s take a closer look at each of them. They each may be focusing on different events from a different perspective and maybe even addressing different audiences on different occasions. The similarities of expression in the various accounts may have caused us to jump to premature conjectures, etc.
 
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