Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

You were the one who accused me of being two other people on another thread which was an error or lie. Which you have never even given a hint of remorse for.....NEVER! Now you want me to think you are not doing the same? If you wish to prove your accusation then do so. Otherwise this is chatter.

Honestly, to all who sadly are reading this display;

Where is the charity?
Where is the brotherly kindness?
Where is the honor?
Where is the desire to restore?
Where is the hope?
Where is the desire to build up?
Where is the Patience?
Where is the goodness
Where is the self control?
Where is even a shred of worldly decency?

Anyone who doesn't have these things cannot be effective and productive in their knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, rather they are nearsighted and blind and: HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT HE HAS EVER BEEN CLEANSED FROM PAST SINS! 2Pe 1:8-9

I'm with you! I have had this album for over 30 years now, and I am always lifted to praise when I hear it! The power of their voices is remarkable isn't it?!

your conclusion that Christ = the Law is invalid.

the first 'that is' refers to 'don't say in your heart, who will ascend'
the second 'that is' refers to 'don't say in your heart, who will descend'

these two are a set of complimentary ideas:
do not have in your heart this whole 'who is going to ascend and who is going to descend?' business.
it is the same as Romans 2:1 -- you who accuse, aintcha guilty of exactly the same things?

the opening context of this passage in Romans 10 is that the people who use the Law to establish their own righteousness are wrong -- and they say in their heart, who will ascend? and think to measure it by a righteousness of works. by law. and they say in their heart, who will descend? and think to measure it by works. they accuse, and they commend themselves, all according to the righteousness they think to establish for themselves - with an evil heart full of vanity and a pitiless scorn against those who, according to their self-established righteousness, they see as beneath themselves.
they say, we, by this righteousness we establish by our works, will ascend. we will be as Christ.
they say, we, in our self-established righteousness, will descend to those beneath us and make disciples for ourselves. we will be as Christ.

the word says, do not say such things in your heart.
what word? the word that is a righteousness not of ourselves, but ascribed by God on the basis of belief. a righteousness that is not by works, but by grace through faith.


the law is not of faith.
the law says 'do this, and don't do that, and you will live'
that is not what faith says. Romans 10:5. Galatians 3:12.

if you think faith = 'do this law and by it you will have life' then you have not received the gospel. that is exactly the opposite of the word preached to us here in Romans 10.

I'm deeply impressed by their qualities. I just posted another video in the Music Forum.

Greetings Posthuman,

When you say Jesus does not equal the Law I think you are overlooking something. Besides the scripture declaring that Jesus is the “I Am”, the same “I Am” that gave Moses the Law, the same “I Am” which was The Word who became flesh, you have the principal which the scriptures exude from one cover to the other cover that God is His Words!

You can say that Gods words, every one of them are truth.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and The Life!

Gods words are His Will. God is pure light. Where we humans often lie or get confused or pursue sinful lusts and speak about nonsense, essentially whatever is in our heart. As Jesus said;

Luk 6:45 KJV A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When God speaks it is an expression of Himself. His laws were and are an expression of Himself. He cannot speak anything other that the light that is in Him.

Jas 1:17-18 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke those laws to Moses. There was/is nothing imperfect, inadequate, insufficient or incomplete about those laws. All of those attributes were aspects of our hearts, not Gods laws or Paul would have never said;

Rom 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I am not pushing over to the other side of the ditch, but I am saying that there is no way in my understanding to separate God and Jesus from His Laws.

Joh 6:63 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There have been times when wanting to somehow quantify the Holy Spirit that I have come across the thought that The Holy Spirit is Gods Laws/Will/Words. So any blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or Gods Laws is unforgivable.

When I read John 14:21 where Jesus says;

Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I take away from this that to know and obey Jesus words it the only way to know Him and Love Him. He confirms this in;

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where He declares if you are “anomia” without the law, you are without me, ( I never knew you) A stretch? I don’t think so. But, does this mean that the law is now our means of Justification/Redemption? NO! But does it mean that many who possible overlook the Laws of God are actually ignoring Him?

I'm deeply impressed by their qualities. I just posted another video in the Music Forum.

One has to ask oneself. Just as Jesus asked the Pharasee's. "Was the "sabbath" (ie law) made for man?" "Or, man made for the sabbath (law).

The "law" or "covenant" is essentially? A contract. An agreement betweenst a believer and his God! More "corporately", in the O.T. And more individualistically in the N.T.
"You keep your end?" "I'll keep Mine!"
One of the "points" of the Old covenant Jesus abolished, was the "blood" sacrifices. Inasmuch, as they had become "null and void" in God's eyes. As it seemed "familiarity bred contempt." Losing the WHOLE point of the sacrificing of animals. Or? The love of the actual husbandry, and offering the BEST as a sacrifice TO God!
This was SUPPOSE to indicate "agape" love FOR God! As also "firstfruits" of "agape love" to God!

Happens here in the BDF all the time, SG!
Certain people have been given, or have "assumed", a "type" of "governing role", or may even consider themselves as being above reproach, and/or critisism, in and, one may even consider it "censuring", concerning spiritual matters, of the which, they really don't have a clue about. Especially, matters concerning the "end of the age." To which they have already reconciled themselves, that this happens when our flesh bodies are viewing the business side of a lawnmower. Never considering, nor condoning, that the "God in their boxes", would never even consider doing ANYTHING beyond their "collective sphere" of understanding, or interpretation/s! IOW? Continuing the perpetuation of "Group think!"
This activity, gives ample cause in being, or becoming suspicious. The warning from Jesus Himself? "Let no man deceive you!" MUST come to ones' consideration. Myself included!

News Flash!! When the "Angels" of The "Lord of the Harvest" brings one to Him? While the individual is still "sucking air", so to speak?
Guess WHAT!
This current "earth/heaven age" has ended, for that individual!

Don't take me wrong here, however. This "governing body", whether granted, or given, this from the admins of this site, and who knows? They may even be the admins of this site, in sheeps/wolves clothing. Whichever, any certain situation may, or in many cases? May not warrant!
In this "venue" called "internet?" It would come as NO surprise to me, if "some" of these people are even taking a salary from "the government!" The "admins" may not even be cognizant of these goings on!
Having said this. Sometimes? They are a useful "tool!" Most times? They can and have provided QUITE the distraction, as well as deflection/s in their deterring the "growing of the Kingdom of God!"
I cannot, nor shall I try and prove these "allegations." The "picking up of one's cross", shall, in time, cause them in exposing themselves as such.

One need only peruse the book of Enoch, in understanding the depth these "petitioners" to the Most High, via Enoch, went in their pleadings! The "reply", was 70 WEEKS! So, it appears that their collective effort/s, is to "NEVER" GET to the 70th WEEK! While during the "interim?" Cycle after cycle of kingdoms and civilizations risings and falling's? Knowledge walking "hand in hand" with wickedness, which "snowballs" apostasy? CONTINUES!


Which brings me to "licentous" remarks, I never stated, nor inferred. Yet, were perceived as such, by some!

Another term you should become familiar with during your stay in BDF.
Is "Strawman!"
Which is to the best of my understanding? The art of standing strong on a single point of an argument, which is true! Whilst simultaneously, at the same time, shoving the rest of their argument down one's throat!
Much akin, in these eyes, anyways, of one trying to remove a gnat from one's eye, and inserting a camel!

Great!

BTW Saw a pic of your place from what looks like a view from a bedroom window! Now that looks peaceful!

Yeah my place in Australia just northwest of Penrith right next to the Blue Mountains......I also have 10 nice cabins in Missouri in Mark Twain National forest about 85 miles southwest of St. Louis on about 61 acres on a spring fed creek.....

And you think they have been saved by what evidence?

Again, We are talking about people in CC.. Show us one person who thinks thats ok? Since the accusers call them out all the time.

it seems like what they are backdoor saying is " if you are not following the Law and keeping the Sabbath ( they will not say it is not required ) , then you are living a careless sinless lifestyle".

could be wrong, but that is the feeling I get....

Went and watched it! I appreciate your apprecaition...I have been blessed by their ministry for a long time and they cease to amaze me! By the way you list of favorites from the album match mine, then I add another and another and it's the whole album again!

Hey EG,

Never addressed your first question.

"...by what evidence?"

What do you specifically look for?

Like you are in one bunker and we are in another Huh?!

I'm seeing both sides of this argument and neither are wrong, UNLESS:

Someone says you only need Grace and no instruction in righteousness after you are saved!

Or, You must have works of righteousness to be saved and Grace is how you do it!

I haven't heard anyone say either.

Like I said earlier today, Posthumans analogy of our walk like a road between two ditches, one Grace and one Growth in righteousness. Swerve to far to one and away from the other and you're in a ditch! I hope I paraphrased him correctly. Anyway does that make sense?

Greetings Posthuman,

When you say Jesus does not equal the Law I think you are overlooking something. Besides the scripture declaring that Jesus is the “I Am”, the same “I Am” that gave Moses the Law, the same “I Am” which was The Word who became flesh, you have the principal which the scriptures exude from one cover to the other cover that God is His Words!

You can say that Gods words, every one of them are truth.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and The Life!

Gods words are His Will. God is pure light. Where we humans often lie or get confused or pursue sinful lusts and speak about nonsense, essentially whatever is in our heart. As Jesus said;

Luk 6:45 KJV A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When God speaks it is an expression of Himself. His laws were and are an expression of Himself. He cannot speak anything other that the light that is in Him.

Jas 1:17-18 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke those laws to Moses. There was/is nothing imperfect, inadequate, insufficient or incomplete about those laws. All of those attributes were aspects of our hearts, not Gods laws or Paul would have never said;

Rom 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I am not pushing over to the other side of the ditch, but I am saying that there is no way in my understanding to separate God and Jesus from His Laws.

Joh 6:63 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There have been times when wanting to somehow quantify the Holy Spirit that I have come across the thought that The Holy Spirit is Gods Laws/Will/Words. So any blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or Gods Laws is unforgivable.

When I read John 14:21 where Jesus says;

Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I take away from this that to know and obey Jesus words it the only way to know Him and Love Him. He confirms this in;

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where He declares if you are “anomia” without the law, you are without me, ( I never knew you) A stretch? I don’t think so. But, does this mean that the law is now our means of Justification/Redemption? NO! But does it mean that many who possible overlook the Laws of God are actually ignoring Him?

The above post only makes sense to those committed to following Jesus and doing all to
make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

And yet there are some who will say this is legalism and evil. Strange because they will
also claim to know Jesus. Which is quite a contradiction indeed.

Greetings Posthuman,

When you say Jesus does not equal the Law I think you are overlooking something. Besides the scripture declaring that Jesus is the “I Am”, the same “I Am” that gave Moses the Law, the same “I Am” which was The Word who became flesh, you have the principal which the scriptures exude from one cover to the other cover that God is His Words!

You can say that Gods words, every one of them are truth.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and The Life!

Gods words are His Will. God is pure light. Where we humans often lie or get confused or pursue sinful lusts and speak about nonsense, essentially whatever is in our heart. As Jesus said;

Luk 6:45 KJV A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When God speaks it is an expression of Himself. His laws were and are an expression of Himself. He cannot speak anything other that the light that is in Him.

Jas 1:17-18 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke those laws to Moses. There was/is nothing imperfect, inadequate, insufficient or incomplete about those laws. All of those attributes were aspects of our hearts, not Gods laws or Paul would have never said;

Rom 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I am not pushing over to the other side of the ditch, but I am saying that there is no way in my understanding to separate God and Jesus from His Laws.

Joh 6:63 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There have been times when wanting to somehow quantify the Holy Spirit that I have come across the thought that The Holy Spirit is Gods Laws/Will/Words. So any blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or Gods Laws is unforgivable.

When I read John 14:21 where Jesus says;

Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I take away from this that to know and obey Jesus words it the only way to know Him and Love Him. He confirms this in;

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where He declares if you are “anomia” without the law, you are without me, ( I never knew you) A stretch? I don’t think so. But, does this mean that the law is now our means of Justification/Redemption? NO! But does it mean that many who possible overlook the Laws of God are actually ignoring Him?