Judas Iscariot

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#21
Jul 3, 2015
60,333
29,581
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#21
pomeranian said:
Do you believe GOD would ever harden a mans heart to go against the Holy Spirit?
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Pharaoh comes to mind... and is a favorite for people to cite as if people do not have a choice, when it seems to me we do :) Coming to that place of KNOWING we have a choice may be something else entirely, though. In the case of Pharaoh, he hardened his own heart many times before God further hardened it to show forth His power and supremacy over the many false gods of Egypt, including Pharaoh himself... but perhaps that is for another thread ;):D:)

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Rom 9:18
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#22
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#22
pomeranian said:
This is a very scary response to me. I ask this question with the utmost of caution. Do you believe GOD would ever harden a mans heart to go against the Holy Spirit?
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First off, Judas did not have the Holy Spirit. Scripture shows us none of the apostles had received that yet. As far as God hardening a man's heart, He has.

Exodus 7:3 "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt." 2cool.gif
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#23
Jul 3, 2015
60,333
29,581
113
#23
Deade said:
First off, Judas did not have the Holy Spirit. Scripture shows us none of the apostles had received that yet. As far as God hardening a man's heart, He has.

Exodus 7:3 "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt."
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Also Joshua 11:20~ For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#24
Jul 3, 2015
60,333
29,581
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#24
God justly responds to people’s wickedness by strengthening their resolve against him. In every instance where Scripture speaks of God hardening someone, it’s an act of judgment in response to decisions these people had already made. God simply ensures that these rebels will do what their own evil hearts desire and not alter course for ulterior motives. But it’s altogether unwarranted to suppose that God unilaterally hardens people’s hearts against himself in the first place—all the while pretending to offer them the hope of salvation! When God decides to harden someone’s heart, we can be assured that God wishes it didn’t have to be that way.


—Adapted from Is God To Blame? pages 188-190
 
P

pomeranian

Banned
#25
Jul 22, 2019
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#25
Deade said:
You misunderstand. "Not keeping company" with someone does not amount to a shun. By all means, we will have to account on how we deal with everyone. There are ways to deal with others without judging or making friends of them. :cool:
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I agree I don't recall any passage were Jesus discontinued keeping Judas' company even and up to being kissed.
 
P

pomeranian

Banned
#26
Jul 22, 2019
189
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#26
Magenta said:
Being sorry for committing a harmful act against someone is not the same as repentance unto salvation :)
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I am unaware of a difference between "repentance" and "repentance unto salvation" When John said after baptism "repent and sin no more" did he mean repentance unto salvation?
 
P

pomeranian

Banned
#27
Jul 22, 2019
189
36
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#27
Magenta said:
Pharaoh comes to mind... and is a favorite for people to cite as if people do not have a choice, when it seems to me we do :) Coming to that place of KNOWING we have a choice may be something else entirely, though. In the case of Pharaoh, he hardened his own heart many times before God further hardened it to show forth His power and supremacy over the many false gods of Egypt, including Pharaoh himself... but perhaps that is for another thread ;):D:)

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Rom 9:18
Click to expand...
Is it your belief that the passage
Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them, and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, and the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord.” And they did so.
is congruent with the 10 commandments and the teachings of Jesus the Christ. That GOD Almighty hardened a mans heart against a people he was protecting (for the purpose of bringing our Savior into the world) simply because he wanted glory and to teach the Egyptians that he was GOD?
I'm not asking if you doubt scripture (even though Jesus himself stated Moses got it wrong on occasion) but when you personally read this passage does it sound like our GOD would do that? Put on the whole armour of GOD
 
F

FullyLoved

Guest
#28
#28
pomeranian said:
Was he a human, a decendant of Adam or was he a creation of Satan?
Did he commit the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of GOD for which there is no forgiveness?
Did he repent of his sin of betraying Christ?
If he did repent of his sin, did he simply die during commission of a sin (suicide) so that he faces judgment only for killing himself? LOVE is the answer to all questions.
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To the first question, yes. Judas was flesh and blood therefore he was a created being...a descendant of Adam. :rolleyes: To the second question I would say that he did commit blasphemy against the Spirit, because by betraying Jesus to the Pharisees not only was he denying the work of Jesus's ministry that he saw first hand, but he was also rejecting him as the son of God by doing so. If you look at the word "repent" by its meaning in the Bible, it means to turn from and change from a previous mode of thought or action. Judas didn't give himself the option to do either of those things, because as we all know, he ended his own life. I wouldn't call that repentance. Remorse and fear, yes, but not repentance because his heart led him to suicide not to change. If someone continues doing the same thing they have always done, they have not repented. I don't really understand what you're asking with that third question. Maybe you could explain it more.
 
P

pomeranian

Banned
#29
Jul 22, 2019
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#29
Deade said:
First off, Judas did not have the Holy Spirit. Scripture shows us none of the apostles had received that yet. As far as God hardening a man's heart, He has.

Exodus 7:3 "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt." View attachment 202006
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Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
By what means do you suppose GOD informed Peter?

Do scriptures also indicate that Moses was ever "incorrect" in some of the passages he wrote?
 
P

pomeranian

Banned
#30
Jul 22, 2019
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#30
FullyLoved said:
To the first question, yes. Judas was flesh and blood therefore he was a created being...a descendant of Adam. :rolleyes: To the second question I would say that he did commit blasphemy against the Spirit, because by betraying Jesus to the Pharisees not only was he denying the work of Jesus's ministry that he saw first hand, but he was also rejecting him as the son of God by doing so. If you look at the word "repent" by its meaning in the Bible, it means to turn from and change from a previous mode of thought or action. Judas didn't give himself the option to do either of those things, because as we all know, he ended his own life. I wouldn't call that repentance. Remorse and fear, yes, but not repentance because his heart led him to suicide not to change. If someone continues doing the same thing they have always done, they have not repented. I don't really understand what you're asking with that third question. Maybe you could explain it more.
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None of us can know Judas' heart except GOD so I agree I have no idea if he felt repentance or not. As for the 3 question it's more because Judas committed suicide not really relevant to this thread.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#31
Jul 3, 2015
60,333
29,581
113
#31
pomeranian said:
I am unaware of a difference between "repentance" and "repentance unto salvation" When John said after baptism "repent and sin no more" did he mean repentance unto salvation?
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Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Cor 7:10 There is a difference between repentance unto salvation and being sorry for having wronged someone. Judas' repentance did not bring life, but death.
 
F

FullyLoved

Guest
#32
#32
pomeranian said:
None of us can know Judas' heart except GOD so I agree I have no idea if he felt repentance or not. As for the 3 question it's more because Judas committed suicide not really relevant to this thread.
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It's really foolish to put words in someone's mouth. While it is true that God judges each suicide case differently when it comes to people depending on their heart, situation, and mental state, scripture is very clear about Judas. Jesus says: "During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me. (some manuscripts read I protected those you gave me, by the power of your name) I guarded them so that not one was lost, except the one headed for destruction, as the Scriptures foretold.
John 17:12
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#33
Jul 3, 2015
60,333
29,581
113
#33
pomeranian said:
None of us can know Judas' heart except GOD so I agree I have no idea if he felt repentance or not.
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Jesus is God and Jesus told us Judas' fate, which excluded repentance. Why people are confused about this rather puzzles me :oops:
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#34
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#34
judas didnt repent he did say he was guilty though. But killed himself before he could be punished For murder. Is my understanding and plus he missed out on the resurrection.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#35
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#35
in the Judgment, if Jesus 'forgives' judas, IF he 'repents', this would certainly be a great example
for us to follow...
like it says in 'The Lord's Prayer', 'Forgive those that trespass against you'.
 
F

FullyLoved

Guest
#36
#36
Magenta said:
Jesus is God and Jesus told us Judas' fate, which excluded repentance. Why people are confused about this rather puzzles me:oops:
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What puzzles me even more is what exactly is the purpose of this thread?
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#37
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#37
pomeranian said:
Was he a human, a decendant of Adam or was he a creation of Satan?
Did he commit the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of GOD for which there is no forgiveness?
Did he repent of his sin of betraying Christ?
If he did repent of his sin, did he simply die during commission of a sin (suicide) so that he faces judgment only for killing himself? LOVE is the answer to all questions.
Click to expand...
Judas is us without love and the desire to conquer the world without love and truth reigning
supreme. It literally does not matter who rules in this situation the result is just death.

We find it hard to grasp that the world is always been divided into those who are prepared
to bow the knee and those who would rather exalt their own life and possibility, and fight
till they die....
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#38
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#38
FollowHisSteps said:
Judas is us without love and the desire to conquer the world without love and truth reigning
supreme. It literally does not matter who rules in this situation the result is just death.

We find it hard to grasp that the world is always been divided into those who are prepared
to bow the knee and those who would rather exalt their own life and possibility, and fight
till they die....
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Thank you FHS, those of us that think we are better than Judas had better wake up. The devil can steer anyone to do his will and make it seem good and logical, unless they have the HS to protect them. Paul plainly states that:

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" 2cool.gif
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#39
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#39
pomeranian said:
Was he a human, a decendant of Adam or was he a creation of Satan?
Did he commit the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit of GOD for which there is no forgiveness?
Did he repent of his sin of betraying Christ?
If he did repent of his sin, did he simply die during commission of a sin (suicide) so that he faces judgment only for killing himself? LOVE is the answer to all questions.
Click to expand...
I'm kind of surprised that no one brought up Acts 1:25, "to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside TO GO TO HIS OWN PLACE." Someone did bring up Judas being "the Son of perdition which is hell." And btw, Judas was human like the rest of us. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#40
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#40
Judas was a LOST man picked by JESUS for the sole purpose of selling JESUS out.....HE was NEVER saved and then lost it....the following verbiage is clear and does not support a man that was saved and then lost it.

a. Called a DEVIL from the beginning
b. Called the SON of Perdition (destruction)
c. JESUS implies he was NEVER CLEAN
d. HE was a thief
e. HE never repents, but in sorrow KILLS HIMSELF
 
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