Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

are you saying that Christians should try to keep the spiritual side of the dietary laws? Or are you saying that Christians should try to follow the physical side of the dietary laws as well? And should they do this, in your view, simply for health reasons?

This was the missing piece of the puzzle that caused Israel and Judah to fail to obey. They lacked the desire.

Where do you come up with those defenitions?

I am not sure a jew in jesus day would agree with you.

Justification by defenition means “delaired righteous” or “declaired inocent of all charges. In a court of law. It would mean aquited lf all crimes. Or innocent.

Sadly, It appears he is afraid of getting tricked. Thats why he will not answer questions, or gets angry when we try to show him stuff.

I personally would be worried if I was that weak in faith. (Oh wait I was!!) and I did everyth8gn I could do to figure out why.
Praise God he showed me..

After all of our discussion and round and round on the same topic, so i think it is a wise recommendation that you should consult with the Holy Spirit in scripture for the answers you bring to me. I think if you are sincere and patient you will receive your answers.

Joh 16:13 KJV Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 KJV But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

With these scriptures in mind, if you will humble yourself and offer up any of the doctrines you learned from other men or churches you may be offered an opportunity to repent from the doctrines that are not of God

Again, you would find peace then.

If you're not sure where the definitions come from then unfortunately you're not reading these passages through fully.

What a your answer to my second question? What was the point James was making when read in full context in the passage you posted? He makes his point in verse 12

I'm pretty sure most people will know what day of the week I'm talking about whether I capitalize it or not.

I figured some legalist would get offended by it eventually.


I don't treat lightbearer poorly. I don't treat any of you legalists poorly.

I just point out your error. Which you really don't like.

Then I show the Truth. Which the legalist puts into their circular reasoning to continue to talk about things they don't really know anything about. Or maybe I should say they aren't as much of an expert on the subject as they seem to think?
1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I should expect that you would understand most of what that is saying. I could continue to expound with scripture but it seems kind of lost on the legalist. Like they have a vail over their minds and can't see the forest for the trees.

Its a really big road block that I can't seem to get around. I don't think you can teach anyone how to be a Christian. I think it has to be revealed, to be given as a gift. And then once that happens a person knows how all of Christianity works.

I do like talking and arguing with legalists, though, because it continually causes me to be grateful for Christ and what He has blessed me with and how He continues to bless me.


Now, let me ask you a serious question. Is it more loving for someone to point out to someone else that they may not be a Christian even though they THINK they are; Or would it be more loving to just agree with someone who THINKS they are a Christian but probably aren't and not correct them in any way?

If someone receives rest from their work at the law do they then go back to that law and continue to work at it as though they haven't received rest?

It would probably be better to never have received rest than to receive it and then discard it and make a mockery of it. Wouldn't you agree?

I suppose not since we have 153 or so pages of this...

The law, could not be FOLLOWED by "flesh men". Flesh is weak. Flesh can not follow Gods laws perfectly.
God sent Jesus. Jesus died. He sent the comforter. When we accept Jesus, God with us, we are saved, we "crucify, kill, dis associate, render no longer in control" our flesh, this is our choice to follow God. Baptism is our sign to the world of our acceptance of this. So as Jesus died and went into the tomb, we go down into the water. As Jesus rose "in Spirit" we come up out of the water, The Spirit within us NOW is working in our lives. Dead flesh, live Spirit.

THIS SPIRIT LED NEW CREATURES, THEY FOLLOW THE LAWS. (no longer made weak by the flesh) THEY CAN'T HELP IT. THE LAWS HAVE BECOME A PART OF THEM BECAUSE THE SPIRIT INSIDE THEM, LEADING THEM, GUIDING THEM, IN CHARGE, IS THE SPIRIT OF THE LAWS AND THE PROPHETS AND/OR THE WORD AND/OR JESUS AND/OR GOD. THEY ARE NOT "UNDER" THE LAW, THEY ARE "IN" THE LAW OR THE LAW IS "IN" THEM.

The word would be "impasse" which is where we stand in reference to any constructive fellowship. You accuse and demean. I feel for your lost heart, but am comforted in knowing you chose freely and were not misled. As your scripture citation says;
The goal of Gods command is love, which comes from pure hearts, good conscience and sincere faith.

To answer your other question; "Is it more loving........" Neither. Your premise is flawed.

Jas 1:27 NIV Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Going back one verse addresses your propensity to cast dispersion's;

Jas 1:26 NIV If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

And why not back it up one more:

Jas 1:25 NIV But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

Do you think the book of James is inspired GP?

Even back in the time of Moses when he first gave the list, not everything applied to every person's situation. That was one of my earlier points last week. So when asked to provide a list that everyone is to follow today, the question doesn't compute because the list already exists. Just read it and see what applies to you and your situation and then do those things.

...but the question is still putting the cart before the horse...

After the receipt of the Holy Spirit, the intention of the Holy Spirit is to move the person to love Yah will ALL of their heart, soul, mind and strength. That doesn't mean what the world has redefined love to mean (i.e. "a high level of emotion and affection for..."). It means to put in energy, to give your all, your maximum effort to please Yah, even at your own expense (self-sacrifice).

...because (with the Holy Spirit in you) you WANT to do that. You want please Yah as much as humanly possible...which is specifically what "the holy spirit inside" was prophesied to do from ancient time.

...to provide the "WANT to"; that very desire. The unction. It's the Messiah's very own Spirit and that's all HE wanted to do when he was here in the flesh.

This was the missing piece of the puzzle that caused Israel and Judah to fail to obey. They lacked the desire.

The Messiah's very own Spirit inside of a person will cause that person to desire to do everything the Messiah's did. It can't not do that. It is written that such is what the promised Spirit was going to do once it was given.

With it, a person will not not want to do all that's in their power to do to obey. This is what Paul explains when he talks about the Spirit of Christ in Romans.

This is the mystery of godliness finally revealed: Christ in you.

The word would be "impasse" which is where we stand in reference to any constructive fellowship. You accuse and demean. I feel for your lost heart, but am comforted in knowing you chose freely and were not misled. As your scripture citation says;
The goal of Gods command is love, which comes from pure hearts, good conscience and sincere faith.

To answer your other question; "Is it more loving........" Neither. Your premise is flawed.

Jas 1:27 NIV Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Going back one verse addresses your propensity to cast dispersion's;

Jas 1:26 NIV If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

And why not back it up one more:

Jas 1:25 NIV But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

Do you think the book of James is inspired GP?

Thats the other thing we doo.

If we do not agree, we accuse and demean.

When you can not look at your own sin, and accuse others. Something is seriously wrong.

I actually am starting to feel sorry for these people

I know, I do too.

But we can't remove the vail. Only Christ can. That is why these discussions go on for 155+ pages...

Nicely worded Y!

I am always blessed when I read Davids words and how he was in LOVE with Gods LAWS!

It is an eye opener to me how David pleaded with God not to take His Holy Spirit from him. David knew he had been only able to understand and love the Laws of God through His Holy Spirit!

All we can do is hope and pray God helps and they can see not only what we are trying to show them, but what they are doing,

The pharisees were hard hearted, ut we know a few of them found truth, and became great men of God.

Yes.

I hope, if not directly the people we talk to, then indirectly the people who see these posts and tend not to respond will be uplifted.

I'm just giving you an opportunity to convince us that Christians are to keep the Law of Moses. With a list of effective Mitzvot in hand it will be easier for us to see your point.

Well It's not about convincing you, it's simply about fully reading/listening to what the NT writers taught...and if they - who tasted of the heavenly gift of the holy spirit - are not believed then all the proof in the world won't matter. Notice what the Messiah said about such things...he was speaking about repentance from sins using Lazarus & the rich man as an example:


Luke 16:27-31

[Rich man says] Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them so they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

29 But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”


The Holy Spirit given to the apostles won't conflict with the Holy Spirit given to the believer today.

Remember that the mystery of lawlessness was already growing in Paul's day, so what does that mean for that spirit nearly 2000 years later? Imagine how prevalent such a spirit is now?

The problem Israel had is they were given a list but had no desire to follow them. There was/is nothing wrong with the list, but we have the same issue today. There's nothing wrong with the list for it to be added to or taken away from. The issue is we have a lot of religious people who (again) have no desire to follow the list.

...but the Holy Spirit was promised to fix that lack of desire...

So isn't proof positive of what is missing in many Christians today?

Again, the mystery of lawlessness was prophesied to fall on the people in the latter days, in fulfillment of scripture. So this is what we're fighting against inside all of us.

Jews are proud to say they are circumcised, but OK, you don't have to answer personal questions. But you can answer this question: Do you think Christians should get circumcised?

You gave us important information about fruit younger than 3 years. See? It is important to publish a list of effective Mitzvot.

are you saying that Christians should try to keep the spiritual side of the dietary laws? Or are you saying that Christians should try to follow the physical side of the dietary laws as well? And should they do this, in your view, simply for health reasons?

Jews are proud to say they are circumcised, but OK, you don't have to answer personal questions. But you can answer this question: Do you think Christians should get circumcised?

You gave us important information about fruit younger than 3 years. See? It is important to publish a list of effective Mitzvot.