Any readers of The Message, Bible translation?

Magenta · Aug 23, 2019

Bob and I read a God-centered daily meditation together (among other things) and the readings sometimes have verses from the NLT in it. I can hardly refrain from exclaiming each time the NLT is presented, how much I do not care for the NLT phrasing. When we read Scriptures together, I am currently reading from the ESV (that is the Bible my church uses), while Bob reads from the NIV. The NIV is much clearer on some things! We both like the KJV but the language has a tendency to be cumbersome. I think an RSV or NRSV may be a good one to read from, and I will make an effort to check it out at some point in the future

calibob · Aug 23, 2019

The NIV was the English text that the Bible school I attended relied on the most. It's not perfect but it's pretty good. Not really suited for word for word study but contextually extremely correct. If someone want's to call them self a Theologian or professor, I'd suggest learning ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

KJV1611 · Aug 23, 2019

calibob said:

It’s all in getting used to it, the KJV is no harder to read than any of the rest.

maxwel · Aug 23, 2019

If I had a bird, I wouldn't even use the pages of The Message to line the bottom of the cage.

There, I said it.

Everyone have fun.

.

CherieR · Aug 23, 2019

I don't always care for the NLT either. I prefer the KJV or NIV. I have enjoyed reading a chapter in Genesis from the NLT though. The NLT I think was inspired from the living bible which is a paraphrase. The living bible I have read some once in the gospels and enjoyed it some.

calibob · Aug 23, 2019

KJV1611 said:

I you study verse by verse and you have a dictionary and a Strong's concordance, true. But a chapter or two per hr. In paragraph form I disagree. We think and talk in paragraph form now days. The Lord didn't have a stenographer following him around and he was teaching many undereducated people in the language that they spoke.

For personal or classroom study, without a set pace or schedule, sure. My first study bible was a Thompsons Chain Reference KJV. Magenta and I are doing two chapters a day usually and now we are in Joshua and Romans simultaneously. From ESV and NIV and discussing the differences as we go. That keeps us busy 30-60 min per night. We often see a harmony between the OT and the NT and that's part of what we are seeking.

(PS; We often make segway's to the Gospels, Hebrews, Psalms etc.)

Nehemiah6 · Aug 23, 2019

TM19782017 said:

Got Questions has done a good critique on this translation which should help all those who are interested in an objective analysis (please read the entire article):

Question: "What is The Message (MSG)?"

The Message – History
The Message: The Bible in Contemporary Language was created by pastor, scholar, author, and poet Eugene H. Peterson and published in segments from 1993 to 2002 by NavPress. In the first four months after its release, 100,000 copies of The New Testament in Contemporary English were printed by NavPress, and 70,000 books were sold. After that time, a legion of product offshoots flooded the bookstores, most of which are now out of print.

The Message – Translation Method
The Message is not a translation, nor can it strictly be said to be a paraphrase of the original languages of the Bible. Peterson’s goal in creating The Message, in his own words, was to “bring the New Testament to life for two different types of people: those who hadn't read the Bible because it seemed too distant and irrelevant and those who had read the Bible so much that it had become ‘old hat’.” Pastor Peterson’s parishioners, by his own admission, “simply weren't connecting with the real meaning of the words and the relevance of the New Testament for their own lives.”

However, this contradicts what Scripture reveals about the power of the Word of God, written by the Holy Spirit and made clear to those who are His: “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12). Far from “losing its impact,” as NavPress describes traditional Bible versions, the Word of God becomes clearer and more impactful the more it is read and studied by those who seek its truth.

The Message – Pro’s and con’s
The original version of The Message was printed without the traditional numbered verses, making it read more like a novel. Many people found this refreshing at first, but also found it inconvenient for cross-referencing, comparison with other versions, and group Bible studies.

As far as the negatives are concerned, there are numerous websites and articles devoted to the translation errors in The Message, too numerous to reiterate here. Suffice it to say that The Message has engendered more criticism for its lack of serious scholarship and outright bizarre renderings than just about any other Bible version to date. One common complaint from many who read The Message or hear it read aloud is “I didn’t recognize it as the Bible.” Other critics declare The Message to be not a paraphrase of what the Bible says, but more of a rendering of what Eugene Peterson would like it to say.

In an interview with Christianity Today, Peterson described the beginning of the creative process that produced The Message: “I just kind of let go and became playful. And that was when the Sermon on the Mount started. I remember I was down in my basement study, and I did the Beatitudes in about ten minutes. And all of a sudden I realized this could work.” Aside from the impossibility of doing justice to the Sermon on the Mount in ten minutes, one wonders whether playfulness is the appropriate demeanor for those who attempt to “rightly divide the word of Truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). Awe and reverence for a holy God and His holy Word, yes. Playfulness? No...

https://www.gotquestions.org/The-Message-MSG.html

maxwel · Aug 24, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

In an interview with Christianity Today, Peterson described the beginning of the creative process that produced The Message: “I just kind of let go and became playful. And that was when the Sermon on the Mount started. I remember I was down in my basement study, and I did the Beatitudes in about ten minutes. And all of a sudden I realized this could work.” Aside from the impossibility of doing justice to the Sermon on the Mount in ten minutes, one wonders whether playfulness is the appropriate demeanor for those who attempt to “rightly divide the word of Truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). Awe and reverence for a holy God and His holy Word, yes. Playfulness? No...

https://www.gotquestions.org/The-Message-MSG.html

A Bible translation is not a "creative process."
It's NOT creative writing, lol.

I literally cannot stop laughing.

.

.

Lanolin · Aug 24, 2019

Magenta said:

The Lord's Prayer

New International Version

9 "This, then, is how you should pray:

'Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from the evil one.'"

King James Version

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

The Message:

9–17

Our Father in heaven,

Reveal who you are.

Set the world right;

Do what's best—

as above, so below.

Keep us alive with three square meals.

Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.

Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.

You’re in charge!

You can do anything you want!

You’re ablaze in beauty!

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Much has been made of that "as above, so below" line, due to its occultic association

I just laugh at the YES YES YES bit.
How can anyone pray this version seriously?

Even a pidgin english translation would be better than the mEssage paraphrase IMHO.

Lanolin · Aug 24, 2019

I just imagine it something Elmo from Sesame Street would pray.

posthuman · Aug 24, 2019

Lanolin said:

Matthew 6:

9 So, pray lidis,

‘God, you our Fadda.

You stay inside da sky.

We like all da peopo know fo shua how you stay,

An dat you stay good an spesho,

An we like dem give you plenny respeck.

10 We like you come King fo everybody now.

We like everybody make jalike you like,

Ova hea inside da world,

Jalike da angel guys up inside da sky make jalike you like.

11 Give us da food we need fo every day.

12 Hemo our shame, an let us go

Fo all da kine bad stuff we do to you,

Jalike us guys let da odda guys go awready,

An we no stay huhu wit dem

Fo all da kine bad stuff dey do to us.

13 No let us get chance fo do bad kine stuff,

But take us outa dea, so da Bad Guy no can hurt us.

[Cuz you our King,

You get da real power,

An you stay awesome foeva.

Dass it!]’

da Hawai`i Pidgin New Testament

Poinsetta · Aug 24, 2019

posthuman said:

Matthew 6:

9 So, pray lidis,

‘God, you our Fadda.

You stay inside da sky.

We like all da peopo know fo shua how you stay,

An dat you stay good an spesho,

An we like dem give you plenny respeck.

10 We like you come King fo everybody now.

We like everybody make jalike you like,

Ova hea inside da world,

Jalike da angel guys up inside da sky make jalike you like.

11 Give us da food we need fo every day.

12 Hemo our shame, an let us go

Fo all da kine bad stuff we do to you,

Jalike us guys let da odda guys go awready,

An we no stay huhu wit dem

Fo all da kine bad stuff dey do to us.

13 No let us get chance fo do bad kine stuff,

But take us outa dea, so da Bad Guy no can hurt us.

[Cuz you our King,

You get da real power,

An you stay awesome foeva.

Dass it!]’

View attachment 203198
da Hawai`i Pidgin New Testament

This creeps me out idk why

tourist · Aug 24, 2019

TM19782017 said:

Looks like a sloppy paraphrase. I don't believe that you will get a lot of spiritual good from reading this, more likely, it may cause spiritual harm.

tourist · Aug 24, 2019

posthuman said:

Matthew 6:

9 So, pray lidis,

‘God, you our Fadda.

You stay inside da sky.

We like all da peopo know fo shua how you stay,

An dat you stay good an spesho,

An we like dem give you plenny respeck.

10 We like you come King fo everybody now.

We like everybody make jalike you like,

Ova hea inside da world,

Jalike da angel guys up inside da sky make jalike you like.

11 Give us da food we need fo every day.

12 Hemo our shame, an let us go

Fo all da kine bad stuff we do to you,

Jalike us guys let da odda guys go awready,

An we no stay huhu wit dem

Fo all da kine bad stuff dey do to us.

13 No let us get chance fo do bad kine stuff,

But take us outa dea, so da Bad Guy no can hurt us.

[Cuz you our King,

You get da real power,

An you stay awesome foeva.

Dass it!]’

View attachment 203198
da Hawai`i Pidgin New Testament

That would make a good skit on SNL.

tourist · Aug 24, 2019

calibob said:

The real smart cookies who are mathematically inclined get promoted to Numbers. You have to study Leviticus in detention.

KJV1611 · Aug 24, 2019

calibob said:

I you study verse by verse and you have a dictionary and a Strong's concordance, true. But a chapter or two per hr. In paragraph form I disagree. We think and talk in paragraph form now days. The Lord didn't have a stenographer following him around and he was teaching many undereducated people in the language that they spoke.

For personal or classroom study, without a set pace or schedule, sure. My first study bible was a Thompsons Chain Reference KJV. Magenta and I are doing two chapters a day usually and now we are in Joshua and Romans simultaneously. From ESV and NIV and discussing the differences as we go. That keeps us busy 30-60 min per night. We often see a harmony between the OT and the NT and that's part of what we are seeking.

(PS; We often make segway's to the Gospels, Hebrews, Psalms etc.)

Just curious, have you entered the kingdom of God? Can you see the kingdom of God?

KJV1611 · Aug 24, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Cali bob if you or anyone else reading this thinks that I’m asking if you’re saved or not I AM NOT.

The question I asked has nothing to do with salvation.

calibob · Aug 24, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Not on a measurable level by earthly standards. However for a brief period of time the Holy Spirit came upon me.

Figuratively however comparing KJV to the NIV or ESV is like comparing Shakespeare to Steinbeck. I understand Steinbeck immediately. It would be harder for me to carry any written by Shakespeare when the people I witness to are like characters from Cannery Row.

I'm not anti KJV and since it serves you well to study it by all means do so. PTL!

KJV1611 · Aug 24, 2019

calibob said:

I know your not anti-KJV.

I’m raising the issue that words matter. We are born again by the incorruptible words of God.

If we’re not born again by incorruptible seed then we don’t even know what born again means. This was the point I was trying to make.

calibob · Aug 24, 2019

KJV1611 said:

And I tend to agree with you. The comment that we don't even know what born again means however dosn't seem accurate. Myself and others on this site like @Deade have a grip on it.

It's like mustard seed faith. Being willing to die to the flesh in order to become born anew. It's something we must go through like gold being tested by fire. The pure and the impure metals sepperate like Iron and slag do in a furnace.

Any readers of The Message, Bible translation?

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