Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.
This is awkward for OSAS/ES because it means if you grieve the Holy spirit you will be unsealed.
The statement also means the day of redemption is ahead and not now.
2 Tim 4:5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8From now on the crown of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.
This is awkward for OSAS/ES because it means if you grieve the Holy spirit you will be unsealed.
The statement also means the day of redemption is ahead and not now.
2 Tim 4:5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8From now on the crown of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.
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Thanks for your prayers but all that being taken out of context to teach something else.
Yes people are sealed and the gifts of God are irrevocable and salvation is free and all that staff- yet none of these means one needs to close their eyes, have that mental picture of Christ dying for your sins and confess the same with your mouth and you are home and dry because this is what is being taught as faith or belief in Christ.
Not even close, these are your own works - the reason i say works are a belief and beliefs are works.
Yes people are sealed and the gifts of God are irrevocable and salvation is free and all that staff- yet none of these means one needs to close their eyes, have that mental picture of Christ dying for your sins and confess the same with your mouth and you are home and dry because this is what is being taught as faith or belief in Christ.
Not even close, these are your own works - the reason i say works are a belief and beliefs are works.
Mic 7:8 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me.
Mic 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.
Mic 7:10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the LORD thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
You are a religious zealot but it is very difficult to believe from what you post that you know the Lord.
Titus 3:5 clearly teaches that the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit is how we are saved. This is received the moment we call upon Christ for salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Titus 3:5 clearly teaches that the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit is how we are saved. This is received the moment we call upon Christ for salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Titus 3:5He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Most people almost always don't know what this means. This has nothing to do with the idea that someone mentally pictures Jesus dying for their sin on the cross and then pronouncing something with their mouth. This is precisely the works that the scripture prohibits for works are a belief but faith in Christ is indeed a work- to love one another.
And this is a practical demonstration of who has faith in Christ:
Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
Most people almost always don't know what this means. This has nothing to do with the idea that someone mentally pictures Jesus dying for their sin on the cross and then pronouncing something with their mouth. This is precisely the works that the scripture prohibits for works are a belief but faith in Christ is indeed a work- to love one another.
And this is a practical demonstration of who has faith in Christ:
Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
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Pure eisegesis/reading one's own ideas into the text. 
Show us the word "unsealed" in the text. Who of us has not sometimes grieved the Holy Spirit? This is actually awkward for those in the NOSAS camp.
Believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption and the Bible says nothing about being unsealed before that day. Also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!
Show us the word "unsealed" in the text. Who of us has not sometimes grieved the Holy Spirit? This is actually awkward for those in the NOSAS camp.Believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption and the Bible says nothing about being unsealed before that day. Also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!
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John 8:31 - ..“If you continue in My word, then you are TRULY disciples of Mine. What about those who set out to be disciples of Christ, yet later become offended by Jesus, like these many disciples in John 6:60-66, who were offended by the words of Jesus, then withdrew and walked with Him no more? -- NOT TRULY His disciples. In verse 64, Jesus even said - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
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hello friend. my heart goes out for you. hope you are doing well God bless you thank you for opening up to us. may God grant you permanent victory.
however i want to ask one question, you said:
about being able to die again and born again again. how do you see these verses going with it:
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
that looks like if its possible to fall away, its also impossible to come back. how do you or any other conditional security believers interpret those verses?
about being born again and dying again i have this verse, which says its incorruptible seed we are born of not corruptible:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
however i want to ask one question, you said:
about being able to die again and born again again. how do you see these verses going with it:
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
that looks like if its possible to fall away, its also impossible to come back. how do you or any other conditional security believers interpret those verses?
about being born again and dying again i have this verse, which says its incorruptible seed we are born of not corruptible:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
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Yes, i work out my own salvation in fear and trembling believing that i will indeed rest from my works and my deeds will follow me.
Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
What about you? What are you going to rest from?
Rev 14:
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
What about you? What are you going to rest from?
Pure eisegesis/reading one's own ideas into the text. Show us the word "unsealed" in the text. Who of us has not sometimes grieved the Holy Spirit? This is actually awkward for those in the NOSAS camp.
Believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption and the Bible says nothing about being unsealed before that day. Also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!
Show us the word "unsealed" in the text. Who of us has not sometimes grieved the Holy Spirit? This is actually awkward for those in the NOSAS camp.Believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption and the Bible says nothing about being unsealed before that day. Also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!
Except that keeping God's word has nothing to do with mental pictures of Christ but rather loving one another (works)
John 15:5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.
John 15:5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.