If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

Your opinion is formed by what you wish to believe. You love to find little seams through which you can create doubt. Just what will you believe about Jesus? How certain will you be that Jesus and Jesus alone has saved you from eternal condemnation?

Will you rely solely on scripture or will you rely upon tradition as well as personal aspirations.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Nehemiah6, great to see you again!

I disagree that your conclusion, that it is therefore a false Christianity, necessarily follows.

Also, and as I've talked about several times on this thread, people tend to use tradition to establish the Canon of scripture. Even people who want to use just the scriptures tend to do that.

Of course my opinion is affected by what I wish to believe. I disagree that my opinion is solely the product of that.

It's often called
Confirmation bias.
And it's much easier to see in other people that in yourself.
It's true for everyone.

I think that's one of the great things about a place like Christian chat. We can brush up against other people, and in that process possibly see things that we wouldn't otherwise see.

I tend to use what you call Little seams because if you use large subjects, people often tend to just want to shut you down immediately.

For example, if I said
How do we know that the gospels contain completely reliable quotes of Jesus?
Most people wouldn't even give that a hearing.

But if you say
What about the document we call third John?
Well it is kind of an odd little book. People may tend to hear, and be more open to seeing things about their own assumptions, for example.

I believe that Jesus is the messiah, the anointed one sent from God, and in fact God incarnate.

I am certain that I am free from condemnation now because
Romans 8: 16. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

I guess that Larry devoted his life to God, because he loves God. And by being a priest maybe he helped many, many people. It is not for us to judge Larry.....leave that to God. But I don't believe that God is a monster......he is the Father. And good Fathers don't tend to want to torment their children. You love him, so how much greater is god's love for him.

We are not saved by a Church, if anyone teaches this, wether he is Catholic or protestant, He is behaving like a cult leader, saying: unless you believe what we believe, your not saved. Those who are divided and cause divisions are babes in Christ, Paul's words, "There is quarreling and divisions among you, are you not behaving like men in the flesh."
There is no reason why a Catholic and Protestant can't be married: witch is the case with me presently. Tho I am called as evangelist to all churches and dont consider myself protestant or Catholic. Was sent to Catholic church a as a child and fell into the world, then to Pentecostal church and took pride in hearing the Lord; then He told me: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent. Later after marriage break fell into adiction. The Lord did not stop speaking to me and I did continue to repent and turn to Him. Among other things the Lord told me: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. Since I have been in recovery I came across books like The Dark Night of the Soul from a Catholic monks that lived over 500 years ago, tho its hard to underatand, there is nothing that would cause division between Catholic or protestant. It's about going on to perfection. I have a study work in progress in plain English, that began over 3 years ago from this book you can read the first part on my page.

So you believe bowing down unto the statue in not prohibit?

So why pope bowing down unto the statue?

Why Bible is in writing? Because for people to read. That is why I read the Bible.

And every body that read is try to understand what it say. Like if you read news paper, you understand what it mean, and if you do not understand some word, you ask or look at the dictionary.

Simple. You read mean you want understand. I feel you not interested in understand than don't read it

Why you believe vatican interpretation ? I don't because a lot of liar there, they love money.

Don't you watch the video I post, Karen Hudes ex senior legal council of world bank say 60% of us federal tax goes to vatican. They are thief and I do not trust in thief.

Do you believe Paul spirit able to see what happen in Corinth while he was some where else?

Why he mention in verse one say it is reported.........

If his spirit was able to see what going on, than his spirit able to talk without his body present, than why he wrote a letter? Just say it.

What kind of tradition?

Apostle tradition or pagan tradition.

Bowing down unto statue is pagan tradition not apostle tradition

Glorify God is apostle tradition

Christians believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement Jesus secured for their salvation on the cross.. They are followers of Jesus.. NOT followers of The Church..

Are people who are devoted to the Mormon Church, serving the truth of God? NO..
Are people who are devoted to the Jehovah's witness Church serving the truth of God? NO..
Are people who are devoted to the roman catholic church sering the truth if God? NO..

Only those who believe Jesus and trust in Him are serving the will of God..

Sure thing Dan, I see where you are coming from.

Maybe its better not to see any "Church" as a material building people go to. I see it as people who form the "body" of the "church which was built with Jesus Christ as the foundation. So not strangers and foreigners from "different named places" or "physical buildings" with names over their door but a new foundation and building that isn't made with hands. I reckon these people are from all places across the Earth.

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord" Ephesians 2:19-21 KJV

Bowing down to a three dimensional object isn't necessarily prohibited, that's correct. As I talked about above, many Protestants feel it's perfectly fine to bow down to a cross.

The issue that I see is that we can't see whether a person is bowing down to an object or showing respect to the thing an object represents.

It's fine if you want to just read the Bible by yourself, for yourself. Many people find that approach very satisfying.

As I've talked about numerous times already, I think there are good reasons to question that approach.

I didn't say that I accept the vatican's interpretation of the scripture. I would say that I can see how they arrived at their conclusions in a general sense, and I try to be aware of my own assumptions.

If you posted a video that talked about the IRS in the United States turning over 60% of the revenue it collects to the Vatican, and if you believe that, and I mean to say this as gently as possible, but I think you've been Hoodwinked.

I was simply pointing out that Paul says he was present in his spirit.

What does it mean to be present in the spirit?

But again we could probably trade a hundred posts about this.

In the end, you are welcome to your own interpretation!

What kind of tradition, that's a good question!

Let's look at an example.

in many cases when people want to show that we are using the correct 27 books for the New testament, they point to a letter written by athanasius in 367 ad.

What kind of tradition would you say that is?

Yes, and amen!

And I'm not saying that other people have to reach the same conclusion that I do on this next part, but I ask myself...

The strangers and foreigners that were forming God's building, where were they in the middle ages? Say, 800 ad or 1100 ad?

Were they meeting in secret and leaving no trace? Or were they mixed in with the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox groups? Where they believing something close to what we would today call Calvinism? Were they believing things similar to what we hear today coming from mega churches?

I tend to think that they probably looked and talked very much like the other Catholics and Orthodox around them, they just displayed a lot more of the fruit of the Spirit!

I would not disagree.. . not after me, the faith to believe God not seen as it is written (sola scriptura) is after no man.

Our brother Peter in the Lord learned that in Mathew 16:222-23 he was forgiven of His blasphemy .

Teaching is not venerable men "lording it over" a non venerable person's faith rather than the faith of Christ which alone comes from hearing (sola scriptura) .The Catholics Nemesis is clearly all things written in the law and the prophets the reforming authority in any generation . We seek the approval of the master teacher.

Its his commandment to do so (2 Timothy 2:15) not a law of the fathers that they call devine according to their book of the law CCC but the law of our Devine father in heaven..(sola scriptura)

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80 - 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

With the stroke of the pen Catholicism as a law of the fathers same kind law the apostate Jew sought after usurps the one authority by which we could believe our Divine God. giving it to sinful men

You have to define teaching as to what it means in that verse in respect to one wife..

It is his view which I believe he warns of those antichrists who say we do must have a man to teach us . Our Father in heaven is our master our infallible teacher .In that way we are call no man teacher on earth master or in your case Pope as a daysman on earth teach the congregation how to hear God.

The reference of those who would seduce us is in regard to antichrists.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2: 26 -27

Truth or lie?

The law of the fathers or what some call Apostolic succession is simply is another source of faith (the book of their law CCC) in respect to men seen .

What kind of tradition would you say the below is? One that puts ( sacred sola scriptura) second?

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80 - 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

Whose same goal of sacred venerable men or our father in heaven not seeen .

I would think no man can serve two teaching masters . Love one hate the other or hate one love the other?

Which one will you serve today .that odf men seen or of our father not seen?

Hey Stillness how you doing?
I sure know what the dark night of the soul means from experience. I thank you for the recommendation of that book. I have just read a great book by the addict expert Gabor Mate. Its called "In the realm of Hungry Ghosts". A real eye opener. In fact everything Gabor Mate speaks of is fascinating as he has had a life time of experience to gather his words from.

Say, my brother Jackson,

Just to throw another idea into the mix,

When Jesus was walking the Earth, he talked to Moses. What was happening there, in your view?