Why the division amongst believers?

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#61
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#61
Dibby53 said:
[QUOTE="p_rehbein, post: 4039670, member:
A person living a homosexual lifestyle does NOT have a "good heart" as it relates to God. For they are living a lifestyle that is an abomination in the eyes of God. A "good heart" does not live a sinfilled life in direct conflict to the Word of God.

I also see you ignored what I said earlier, and as I continue to read your comments, it is quite clear you fully understand that the homosexual lifestyle is not "of God," and is a sinfilled lifestyle that will cause the person to face eternal damnation. You KNOW this to be true, but you so want it not to be, that you are perpetuating false ideologies/misinterpretations of Scripture in hopes that someone here will give you some Biblical evidence that it is "OK" for you/anyone to live such a lifestyle.

Sadly, you are only deceiving yourself. And that is far worse than being deceived by someone else, for at least then you have some defense........saying that "they" lied to you. When a person lies to themselves, they have no one but themselves to blame.
Click to expand...
The thread was about divided believers, not homosexuality per se. I don't really know what else to say to you. It is difficult to share with you genuinely. You tell me what I " fully understand", what "I know" to be true and how "I am deceiving myself". Can you judge me better than God? Do you know the genuineness of my intentions and motivations? I,m simply sharing my ideas, thoughts and contemplations......I claim no divine sanction for them. It is for others to decide how useful they find them and for God to judge my soul. Peace x[/QUOTE]

that is what it was suppose to be about, but it was you who put homosexuality in the forefront, not me, or any others here. Just saying.

I find it difficult to take you serious when you have ignored the comments of those here who have tried to sympathize with you and help you, and continued to try to rationalize your beliefs about gays being acceptable to God and the Church. Even going as far as putting forth this person who wrote a Book in an attempt to do the same thing. Having read some Reviews, it's clear he had an agenda, and in my opinion, that agenda is yours as well.

As for judging, again, you need to study the Scriptures. On one hand you denounce the Scriptures as NOT being the Word of God, and, when it suits you, you refer to them. Can't have it both ways. I am sincere in my concern for you, if I were not, I wouldn't bother even communicating with you. But you have been far less than honest with the people here, and that is not the fruit of a good heart is it?

Christ told us we would know a tree by it's fruits/a man by his works...that is Biblical judgement, and Christ instructed us to do it. Your "works" here are your words, and that is what I am speaking of. As well, being quite experienced in dealing with troubled souls (Veterans), I am quite sure you are well aware that Scripture speaks directly against the homosexual lifestyle.

Why don't you start by being hones with the folks here? There are many here who would jump at the chance to counsel you, and help you through a spiritual crisis, if that is really what this is about. As for me, I began that way, but the Old Soldier in me, and my experience with those who practice deception to advance their agenda began to sound the alarms.

And, having read comments of yours on other Threads, I began to see a pattern quite familiar to me. Sorry, I can not accept your proposal that you are being sincere. Some will be upset with me for this, but, in the long run, the Truth will out! It always does.

Go in peace
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#62
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#62
One final response. I find it odd that you would "like" my comment, and then post negatively against it.

I will pray for you, but I won't play this game you are playing
 
Dibby53

Dibby53

Banned
#63
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
43
#63
p_rehbein said:
One final response. I find it odd that you would "like" my comment, and then post negatively against it.

I will pray for you, but I won't play this game you are playing
Click to expand...
I apologise for liking your comment. I was typing at 6.30am and must have hit it by accident. I have unclicked it. You think I am unsincere. I,m sorry you feel that about me. I will try not to respond to you directly again.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#64
Apr 18, 2013
9,348
2,434
113
#64
Dibby53 said:
[QUOTE="p_rehbein, post: 4039670, member:
A person living a homosexual lifestyle does NOT have a "good heart" as it relates to God. For they are living a lifestyle that is an abomination in the eyes of God. A "good heart" does not live a sinfilled life in direct conflict to the Word of God.

I also see you ignored what I said earlier, and as I continue to read your comments, it is quite clear you fully understand that the homosexual lifestyle is not "of God," and is a sinfilled lifestyle that will cause the person to face eternal damnation. You KNOW this to be true, but you so want it not to be, that you are perpetuating false ideologies/misinterpretations of Scripture in hopes that someone here will give you some Biblical evidence that it is "OK" for you/anyone to live such a lifestyle.

Sadly, you are only deceiving yourself. And that is far worse than being deceived by someone else, for at least then you have some defense........saying that "they" lied to you. When a person lies to themselves, they have no one but themselves to blame.
Click to expand...

"Sadly, you are only deceiving yourself.'
You actually disparaged p_rhebein with these words, when he stated simple and clear facts from scripture, things all believers have always known... things even a child can understand?




You are not repentant of sin, you are PROMOTING SIN.


You have come here disparaging and doubting the scripture, and promoting homosexual sin.

In this forum you have cast doubt on the scripture, and you have supported and promoted homosexual sin... you call good evil, and you call evil good.

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

-----------------

Calling Good Evil, and Evil Good

1. Here, you created an entire thread, just to cast down on scripture.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bible-is-the-word-of-god.187574/#post-4039086

2. Here you recommend a book promoting homosexuality, written by Justin Lee, the founder of the Gay Christian Network.
post #10
https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/why-the-division-amongst-believers.187575/


----------------

You are not repentant of sin, you are PROMOTING SIN.


You are LITERALLY, and SHAMELESSLY, casting doubt on scripture, and promoting homosexuality... right here in a Christian forum.

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!




If you were repentant of sin, we would all support you...
but you aren't repentant of sin, you are promoting sin.

--

.
 
Dibby53

Dibby53

Banned
#65
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
43
#65
maxwel said:
"Sadly, you are only deceiving yourself.'
You actually disparaged p_rhebein with these words, when he stated simple and clear facts from scripture, things all believers have always known... things even a child can understand?




You are not repentant of sin, you are PROMOTING SIN.


You have come here disparaging and doubting the scripture, and promoting homosexual sin.

In this forum you have cast doubt on the scripture, and you have supported and promoted homosexual sin... you call good evil, and you call evil good.

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

-----------------

Calling Good Evil, and Evil Good

1. Here, you created an entire thread, just to cast down on scripture.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bible-is-the-word-of-god.187574/#post-4039086

2. Here you recommend a book promoting homosexuality, written by Justin Lee, the founder of the Gay Christian Network.
post #10
https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/why-the-division-amongst-believers.187575/


----------------

You are not repentant of sin, you are PROMOTING SIN.


You are LITERALLY, and SHAMELESSLY, casting doubt on scripture, and promoting homosexuality... right here in a Christian forum.

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!




If you were repentant of sin, we would all support you...
but you aren't repentant of sin, you are promoting sin.

--

.
Click to expand...
Sorry Maxwell, but you are ranting. You are also attributing motives to me that I don't have. You are also using a quote from p_rehbein's post to me and attributing it to me, for some reason. It was p_rehbein who said to me , "Sadly, you are deceiving yourself". I thought this was a site for me to be able to explore, share and clarify my thoughts on Christianity.......perhaps I was wrong. Maybe the fundamentalist view is all that is left.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#66
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#66
there is no 'perhaps', - and yes, this is a site for all of us to explore, - ...
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#67
#67
Dibley needs to know that some of us question the literal meaning of some scripture. whether it applies to our modern day world. If it causes us to look down on some of our fellow human beings then is it serving a loving purpose? one that Jesus would approve of ? I see myself as an outsider sometimes and feel obligated to support others who feel the same for whatever reason.
Real life has a way of challenging our theories and theologies. I dont think we can truly follow the greatest commandment unless we learn to think outside our current paradigms.
 
Gregoryp

Gregoryp

Banned
#68
Jul 20, 2019
1,228
882
113
#68
Applies to our modern world? God never changes, Jesus never changes, the word is as relevant today as it was 2500 years ago.Its the world that has changed, not God. Divert your eyes away from the world, and look to scripture to find the right way.
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#69
#69
Gregoryp said:
Applies to our modern world? God never changes, Jesus never changes, the word is as relevant today as it was 2500 years ago.Its the world that has changed, not God. Divert your eyes away from the world, and look to scripture to find the right way.
Click to expand...
Look to scripture but be careful how you interpret it.
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#70
#70
If I can just add:
remember that Jesus was challenging the current paradigms of His day. The legalists were appalled at his way of thinking.
It took a long time for even the Apostles to understand what Jesus was standing for and proposing. Just the meaning of "Kingdom" for example.
Wasnt Jesus saying "repect the law, the rules but dont get obsessive about them. Im more interested in your attitude. Your heart. "?
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#71
Apr 18, 2013
9,348
2,434
113
#71
Dibby53 said:
You are also attributing motives to me that I don't have.
Click to expand...

I am truly sorry if I've attributed wrong motives to you.


Let's clear up your motives.


1. Are you repentant of your homosexuality?
2. Are you repentant of your homosexual behavior, trying your best to turn away from it, and seeking help to change?


If you are truly repentant of these sins, and seeking help to change, then I will be thrilled you are here with good motives.



.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#72
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,478
113
#72
Dibby53 said:
I disagree. Whilst doctrine maybe of relative importance time and again Jesus mentions the state of a persons heart as primary. Luke 19: 1-10 tells of Zacchaeus who gave half his possessions away and paid back people he cheated. Jesus said " Salvation has come..." Why? Because Zacchaeus had a change of heart ( repented). The good samaritan was good because he was compassionate, not because he believed a doctrine. ( In fact Jesus uses the story as jews and samaritans were doctrinally different, and regarded each other badly). In the parable of the sheep and goats Jesus says that the people with the good hearts were justified, "For I was naked and you clothed me, etc". In the parable of the pharisee and the sinner; it is the sinner who prays "Father, have mercy on me a sinner" who is accepted by God. Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom only those who do the will of the Father. So maybe not everyone who is doctrinally correct will enter the kingdom, and not everyone who is suspect in doctrine will be excluded.
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Peoples hearts are desperatly wicked.. No one is Good.. Only God is good Jesus said..

Luke 18: KJV
19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

Do you believe Jesus, when He declared only God is good?

Deluding oneself into thinking they have a good enough heart to qualify themselves to enter into eternal life with God is a one way ticket to the eternal lake of fire.. One must Believe Jesus AND trust 100% in the Atonement Jesus secured on the cross.. Part of believing Jesus is to believe the teachings He gave in His time on earth..

So one can have a very faulty heart and be a chief of sinners and Believe Jesus and trust in His Atonement and be saved.. And another can be a far better human but not perfect and disbelieve the essential teachings and not trust 100% in the Atonement of Jesus and be damned..

A 95% bad person can be forgiven all their 95% badness and be saved while a 95% goodness person can be damned because their 5% badness was not forgiven.. Salvation has always been about being forgiven .. And all sins must be forgiven to have eternal life.. No matter if it is 5% or 95% Both people are offered the same gift from God through the LORD Jesus Christ..
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#74
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#74
Dibby53 said:
Hi everyone
I was wondering why there is so much discord within the church over interpretations of scripture? It seem to me that it is not so much that believers can agree to disagree; it is that there seems to be a need to invalidate the opponent's very relationship with God, and a refusal to fellowship often.For instance, that they are not really saved, or that the devil has got to them in some way. Homosexuality, divorce, the role of women in church; faith and works; jewish law etc. You name it and there seems to be a multiplicity of opinions and genuinely held positions.
Click to expand...
Things are just as they are supposed to be. All is well.

Luke 12:51-53 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#75
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#75
Yea I wouldnt be worried about it. Its Jesus who has the final say and yes there are wheats mixed up with the Tares before harvest time, we actually should not be surprised about that.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#76
Jan 14, 2019
7,897
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
#76
Dibby53 said:
Hi everyone
I was wondering why there is so much discord within the church over interpretations of scripture? It seem to me that it is not so much that believers can agree to disagree; it is that there seems to be a need to invalidate the opponent's very relationship with God, and a refusal to fellowship often.For instance, that they are not really saved, or that the devil has got to them in some way. Homosexuality, divorce, the role of women in church; faith and works; jewish law etc. You name it and there seems to be a multiplicity of opinions and genuinely held positions.
Click to expand...
we are fallible human beings.
 
T

tasha66

Guest
#77
#77
I think God & Jesus love you just the way you are, whether you are straight or gay.
Whether the poster is gay or not is nobody's business, & he certainly doesn't have to reveal that to anybody on here. If the poster is gay, and he wants to change or not, that is a matter between him & God - nobody else.
There is a serious & extremely alarming risk of getting into 'gay bashing' on this site. This is what the Nazis purported in the 30s & 40s. Someone acts like a homosexual (with no proof of even gay sexual activity)? Lock them up. Someone is black? Lock them up. Jewish people - same treatment. JWs (Jehovah’s Witnesses) - get rid of them. Anyone who was judged to be 'a bit different' was locked up, gassed & the whole of society was supposed to be 'cleansed'. Should we also hate fat or disabled people?? The palpable hatred evident in some of these answers reminds me of that era, & it is appalling to say the least.
Nowadays, we are not supposed to be discriminatory towards people irregardless of sexual orientation, race, colour, religion etc. I work with people of the worse kind - child murderers, rapists, peadophiles, etc. I also work with gay colleagues occasionally. But in my job we are not allowed to discriminate & we are required by law to treat everybody with dececy & respect, which is how it should be. It gets very hard some days, but if we hate one type of person in society & ridicule them, we will end up making lame excuses to hate other types of people too - obese people come to mind as an example.
We as enlightened people today are supposed to be above that type of hatred aren't we? I’m pretty sure God and/or Jesus said that they love everybody, even if they haven't been saved. We are all made in the image of God.
Although religions do differ in their interpretation of the Bible, I for one think the 10 commandments are pretty clear, & I stick by them. I am no Bible expert, so I’m not getting into semantics. Bible verses CAN be twisted if quoted on their own when taken out of context, and the Bible is a collection of many separate books which should be read concurrently. It was also written mainly in parables, so that the writers wouldn’t get executed if their work was discovered.
I have worked with and known gay people who said they were Christians, and who hadn’t changed their lifestyle - they saw no need to. One friend said to me: ‘God put this desire in me since I was young, & I know God loves me.’ I don’t know if that is true, but many gays are adamant it is. I don’t personally agree with some of their lifestyle choices, but I don’t hate gays. They were in the main, nice, helpful people - just like you and me. I’ve had gay friends who would do anything to help you.
And he wasn’t asking about gays - he just used that an example re interpretation of scripture.
Some people on here REALLY need to look at what they are posting in their replies. Some of them are pretty appalling for a Christian website, when you are supposed to be welcoming new comers. Some people also like me aren’t baptised Christians. They may be on here to learn & get help. Many people need help nowadays in our shallow, me-me-me society, and they have turned to YOUR website for help. You should all be flattered, but instead, some are making derogatory, demeaning & dehumanizing comments to sometimes poor, lost souls on here.

John 15:12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk

Watch the movie about Harvey Milk starring Sean Penn. It was appalling what was happening in the gay community. Gays were literally being murdered & nothing was being done about it. Like Jesus, Harvey stood up to those who knew they were doing wrong & committing evil acts, & spoke out against them.
You may not like the gay lifestyle, but at least try to be forgiving & treat them like a human being!
My old granny used to say: “If you cut us, we all bleed the same colour of blood”. Granny was very wise!
Dibby, you don’t have to apologise to anyone on this site for who you are, or what you believe.
God is the ultimate judge, not people :)
 
Dibby53

Dibby53

Banned
#78
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
43
#78
tasha66 said:
I think God & Jesus love you just the way you are, whether you are straight or gay.
Whether the poster is gay or not is nobody's business, & he certainly doesn't have to reveal that to anybody on here. If the poster is gay, and he wants to change or not, that is a matter between him & God - nobody else.
There is a serious & extremely alarming risk of getting into 'gay bashing' on this site. This is what the Nazis purported in the 30s & 40s. Someone acts like a homosexual (with no proof of even gay sexual activity)? Lock them up. Someone is black? Lock them up. Jewish people - same treatment. JWs (Jehovah’s Witnesses) - get rid of them. Anyone who was judged to be 'a bit different' was locked up, gassed & the whole of society was supposed to be 'cleansed'. Should we also hate fat or disabled people?? The palpable hatred evident in some of these answers reminds me of that era, & it is appalling to say the least.
Nowadays, we are not supposed to be discriminatory towards people irregardless of sexual orientation, race, colour, religion etc. I work with people of the worse kind - child murderers, rapists, peadophiles, etc. I also work with gay colleagues occasionally. But in my job we are not allowed to discriminate & we are required by law to treat everybody with dececy & respect, which is how it should be. It gets very hard some days, but if we hate one type of person in society & ridicule them, we will end up making lame excuses to hate other types of people too - obese people come to mind as an example.
We as enlightened people today are supposed to be above that type of hatred aren't we? I’m pretty sure God and/or Jesus said that they love everybody, even if they haven't been saved. We are all made in the image of God.
Although religions do differ in their interpretation of the Bible, I for one think the 10 commandments are pretty clear, & I stick by them. I am no Bible expert, so I’m not getting into semantics. Bible verses CAN be twisted if quoted on their own when taken out of context, and the Bible is a collection of many separate books which should be read concurrently. It was also written mainly in parables, so that the writers wouldn’t get executed if their work was discovered.
I have worked with and known gay people who said they were Christians, and who hadn’t changed their lifestyle - they saw no need to. One friend said to me: ‘God put this desire in me since I was young, & I know God loves me.’ I don’t know if that is true, but many gays are adamant it is. I don’t personally agree with some of their lifestyle choices, but I don’t hate gays. They were in the main, nice, helpful people - just like you and me. I’ve had gay friends who would do anything to help you.
And he wasn’t asking about gays - he just used that an example re interpretation of scripture.
Some people on here REALLY need to look at what they are posting in their replies. Some of them are pretty appalling for a Christian website, when you are supposed to be welcoming new comers. Some people also like me aren’t baptised Christians. They may be on here to learn & get help. Many people need help nowadays in our shallow, me-me-me society, and they have turned to YOUR website for help. You should all be flattered, but instead, some are making derogatory, demeaning & dehumanizing comments to sometimes poor, lost souls on here.

John 15:12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk

Watch the movie about Harvey Milk starring Sean Penn. It was appalling what was happening in the gay community. Gays were literally being murdered & nothing was being done about it. Like Jesus, Harvey stood up to those who knew they were doing wrong & committing evil acts, & spoke out against them.
You may not like the gay lifestyle, but at least try to be forgiving & treat them like a human being!
My old granny used to say: “If you cut us, we all bleed the same colour of blood”. Granny was very wise!
Dibby, you don’t have to apologise to anyone on this site for who you are, or what you believe.
God is the ultimate judge, not people :)
Click to expand...
Thankyou Tasha! And amen! I was beginning to despair. Thankyou for your welcome, I appreciate it alot. Homosexuality was only one example that I gave on divided believers. Some seem to have run with it, and turned this thread into something it was not about ( they can always start their own thread on that subject if they want). Divisions pertain to the role of women in church; once saved always saved, or not; gifts of the spirit; predestination; whether the Toronto blessing is from God; latter reign theology, etc. My point being that one section of believers will cast doubt on, or outright negate another persons relationship with God if they disagree with them. For example, if someone believes that women should not teach in church then they are forced into believing that a woman who does so, must be deceived; and that therefore her relationship with God is faulty.
I think the title of the thread is proved by the posts here. Thankyou again x
 
M

morefaithrequired

Guest
#79
#79
Please. Dont pick on the obese either! 😁
 
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