Did Jesus and Paul teach differnt gospels?

^ I know what passages you were pointing to. But this has not answered my questions (addressed to you).


["6 Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, [...]"]

"By so much also, Jesus HAS BECOME the guarantee [/a surety] of a better covenant." Hebrews 7:22

OK theose are the guidelines to me.

So Peter is chosen by Jesus, by Jesus OWN words this validates Him as authentic.

As long as Peter does not break any of the Deut 13 stipulations he continues as valid.

If Peter were to say to follow another god, quits following Jesus, or teaches differntly than Jesus then he would disqualify himself.

Peter has done none of those things and his name is written on the foundation of the kingdom. Peter is "rock" solid.

If that does not answer you are going to have to be specific.

Hebrews 7:11-12, “Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed (#G3346), there is made of necessity a change (#G3331) also of the law.”

“For the priesthood being changed G3346, there is made of necessity a change G3331 also of the law.”

one "change" G3346 is an abolishing of one (priesthood Levitical) and establishment of another (priesthood (after the order of Melchizedek)

the other "change" G3331 is a transfer (the law) form the Levitical to the order of Melchizedek

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

The Levitical priesthood is abolished, now the high priest is after the order of Melchizedek. The priesthood office remains the holder of the office changes. The law transfers mediation, and is mediated by the Messiah.

Hebrews 7:23-25, " 23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Okay, so you are saying that Peter's "vision" (which HE ALONE saw) was sufficient (no witnesses needed) BECAUSE it agrees [in every respect] with everything Jesus said in/during His earthly ministry (including Matthew 10:5-6 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and Matthew 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.")

You are ignoring or you didn't read what I said.

Then Jesus made witness that all the disciples were sent to all nations, so I don't need Peter's word, but he has been verified and can thus testify, but again it is not needed because Jesus says "go to all nations" more than 2 times:

Acts 1:6-8, " ...you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:44-49, “...47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Luke 24:44-49, “44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Yet Paul says Peter and the rest of the 12 (they) was sent to Jews only:

Galatians 2:7-9, " 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

This is a direct contradiction of Jesus words. There is no way around it. The 12 were sent to all nations.

The point of the story is, if you judge others, you'll be judged the same way.

I wasn't relating the the story to you or anyone else. And yes, the law does teach us to be merciful considering our own guilt.

This I agree with, I did not agree with what you said before but I fully agree with this.

One thing I can say personally is that looking into the law not only do I realize my sins but it makes me think that just because another person has a sin that is different than mine I can not look down on them. I think James words it well

James 4:10-12, “Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you. Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”

Im not saying don;t cal a sin what it is, but we don;t know other people's walk or repentance or eternal place, God and Jesus do and it is for Him to decide.

John 5:22-23, " 22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son, 23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him.

Well, btw, (as to your Post #147) Matthew 28:19 says, "having gone" (it is not stating "go [imperative]"... and nothing is standing in the way of Acts 1:8b being a "proleptic 'you'" as I mentioned before... same for Lk24:47).


[one of the cc members has presented a post before, delineating Matthew 10 (some present [to the time spoken], some far-future)]

Jesus:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Paul:

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do."

Jesus:

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Paul is teaching against what Jesus says.

Yes as you explore all these contradictions, you will have to decide for yourself,

Is the Bible contradictory? Which no true Christian will accept.

Or

Perhaps they are written to different audiences during different time periods? Which may make more sense.

FollowtheShepherd, are you saying you believe the book of Revelation was written before 70ad? or after (like I *think you'd stated earlier)?

Or I use the Duet 13 test, establish everything in the mouth of 2 or more witnesses, know the words of the Fath and of Jesus. Pray for guidance and let the Spirit lead.

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

Acts 21:25, “But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

1 Corinthians 10:25, “Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience.”

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 2:2, “I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.”

1 Corinthians 9:1-4, “9:1, "Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?"9:2, "If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord."9:3, "This is my defense to those who would examine me."9:4, "Do we not have the right to eat and drink?”

Here is a little info, the historical stuff comes from Ebonite writings and may or may not be accurate, however there is more than one instance in the word that is shown below that talks about this same type of thing and upon inspection it seems like the same incident to me.

Well as Peter said in the Ephesus trial of Paul recorded in history by an Ebionite writing, we can not comfirm or deny if Jesus appeared to him" Now no matter if that is even fully accurate or not, this does matter:

If people knew and applied the word it would help, one can not testify on their own behalf to SETTLE a case or prove a fact. 2 or more witnesses are needed.

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

Paul is the only one that calls himself an apostle/disciple, 2 Peter calls him a brother and is in line with what the Ebionite writings say about Paul's trial in Ephesusand he himself eludes to:

2 Timothy 4:14-17,14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will pay him back for what he did."15 You, too, must watch out for him, for he violently opposed our message."16 At my first trial no one came to my defense. Everyone abandoned me. May it not be held against them!"17 However, the Lord stood by me and gave me strength so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the gentiles could hear it. I was rescued out of a lion’s mouth."

2 Timothy 1:15-18,15 You know that everyone in Asia has abandoned me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes."16 May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus, for he often took care of me and was not ashamed that I was a prisoner."17 Instead, when he arrived in Rome he searched diligently for me and found me."18 May the Lord grant that he finds mercy on the day he comes again. You know very well how much he assisted me in Ephesus."

Interesting this Ephesus is in Asia.

Revelation 1:10-11, " 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

"which are in Asia; unto Ephesus"

Acts 19:1,8-9, “1, It was while Apollos was in Corinth that Paul passed through the inland districts and came to Ephesus. He found a few disciples there 8, "He went into the synagogue and spoke there boldly for three months, holding discussions and persuading those who heard him about the kingdom of God. 9, "But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them, taking his disciples away with him, and held daily discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.”

"came to Ephesus...But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them"

Revelation 2:1-3, " 1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.

So to summarize your response, it will be how a red letter Christian would respond, if they contradict, just follow Jesus words?

Okay that is one straightforward way to resolve it.

That didn't summarize, you put your words on me.

John 5:39-40, " 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

FtS, do you believe one of the things Peter said was "hard to be understood" (in Paul's writings) was "But on the contrary, having seen that I have been entrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision just as Peter of the circumcision"... or are you saying that, in this Galatians verse (since written by Paul), this statement is not to be trusted as being something that an "official person" like Peter would have agreed with as "true"??


Second question: do you believe the 144,000 ["servants" Rev7:3(1:1;22:6)] are yet "future"? (or existed in the first century instead?)

John was imprisoned during Domitian's persecution in the middle 90's, he was exiled to the island of Patmos, were he was given visions and wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He was later freed and went to Turkey, perhaps on a mission to establish churches there. John is the only one of the company generally thought to have died a natural death from old age between 90 AD to 120 AD. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home.

That is the problem when people cut and paste responses for other posts into new posts. They don’t gel well and readers cannot understand what you are actually saying.

No, what is mentioned in 2 Peter doctrinally is "lawlessness" beyond that I can not say exactly, but also there seems to be more that happened between them after 1 and 2 Peter was written

I can't say for sure, all I can confirm is that they are sealed by the 5th trumpet:

Revelation 7:1-4, " 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Fifth trumpet Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads

Revelation 14:1-2, " 1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,

Revelation 22:4-5, " 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Fifth trumpet Revelation 9:1-12, " 1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them. 7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. 10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. 11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon. 12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.

IF you have any other insiget I would like to hear it, also, honesty I have not studied the 144k in some years.