Real believers have a new identity in Christ. Embrace your new identity, and don't be labeled by accusers

GOD looks at the heart man looks at the outside,appearances.
You cannot know but you can see the effects of fruit of the Spirit.

JESUS the VINE we,the branches receiving sustenance from the VINE and displaying spiritual fruit establishing the law

All the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.

Calvary Chapel had some admirable traits. I attended one for a few years.

I just don't agree with them on Reformed theology, and I am not a dispensationalist. Because they are dispensationalists, there's a tendency to play "pin the tail on the antiChrist". Last time I visited one, it was announced that they were doing their "prophecy update" that evening. I rolled my eyes

If they are PROPER dispies they believe in the pre-trib rapture! So no need to pin the tail on the antichrist. We're gonna be gone by then according to them!

Yeah, I remember. For some time teachings like Hal Lindsey's were very popular and a lot of ears got tickled.
I decided to let that go and focus my attention on helping others. It was a great place to meet others and praise the Lord together.

Why would you say that Hal Lindsey was tickling the ears? While he may have gone too far with some of his ideas, he was not trying to mislead people but to warn the unsaved.

Instead of being committed to Reformed Theology, why don't you focus on being committed to Bible theology (which is not the same at all)? What I have found is that those who are ensnared by Reformed Theology would rather cling to it than cling to the truth.

You have a bias against Dispensationalists because Dispensationalism exposes THE FALLACIES of Reformed Theology. But if one in committed to the truth, he must also be prepared to abandon his fallacies and embrace the truth.

At the same time, all Christians need to be careful in trying to tie specific Bible prophecies to current events. But generally current events are indeed reflecting the fulfillment of prophecies concerning the last days. People like Hal Lindsey might be going too far in some cases, but generally Dispensationalism gives us a proper understanding of Bible truth.

I disagree with you on BOTH ACCOUNTS. My position is solid from a biblical standpoint. From my perspective, free willers are not coherent. Old Pentecostals, charismatics, general Baptists, and liberals will disagree with me, though.

But, maybe you are assuming I believe in ordinary covenant theology. I do not...I believe in 1689 Federalism. Unfortunately Presbyterians and some Reformed Baptists believe in ordinary covenant theology and I disagree with some elements of it. Also, they are strongly biased against understanding types and shadows, and therefore I don't think they can understand much due to their overcommitment to literalizing Scripture, even when it's obvious the passage should be interpreted symbolically.

Dispensationalism is so goofy I won't even discuss it. Their view presupposes a linear progression of the book of Revelation, and I know for sure that is erroneous. There are about about seven parallel accounts which have overlapping content, and that is not disputable.

By the way, there are dispensationalist Reformed people, so one could believe in Reformed theology and dispensationalism at the same time (at least the doctrines of grace). John MacArthur is one of those guys. I don't agree with Johnny Mac on that, but I still respect him because at least he has his soteriology straight.

I made a mistake here:

This remark was meant to apply to dispensationalists:

Also, they are strongly biased against understanding types and shadows, and therefore I don't think they can understand much due to their overcommitment to literalizing Scripture, even when it's obvious the passage should be interpreted symbolically.

Notice that I use the word "literalizing". What I mean by "literalizing" is viewing the passage in a wooden, literal sense when it is obvious that the passage is meant to convey symbolic meaning. Particularly, I am speaking about Revelation.

For instance, it is obvious that the cube shaped city, the New Jerusalem, in Rev 21 relates to the Most Holy Place. In fact, what it is proposing is that the presence of God will fill the New Creation.

Yet, many dispensationalists would claim there will be a literal cube-like city, the New Jerusalem, jutting out into space.

Dispensationalists have an over-commitment to "literalizing" Scripture, without considering the type of literature.

In other cases, I have noted obvious typology from the OT and dispensationalists have told me that I cannot reason like that...unless the type is specifically identified in Scripture.

So, I really have no use for dispensationalists and their rules of hermeneutics.

By the way, they will break their own rules when it suits their purpose so they are hypocrites in that way.

I don't know what you are talking about. I believe many Christians now are looking for a safe zones, away from denominationalism and have gravitated to Bible only places to worship and share. We have heard enough RCC, name it and claim it, Prosperity doctrines. And too much Calvinism, hyper grace vs saved by works nonsence. So we go where we are allowed to have differing opinions and learn from each other while studying together. So we set aside those barriers. For Christs sake.

I could agree with that. The only thing is that you notice the individual attacked me on that point. Somehow he believes that Reformed theology is unbiblical. I know that individuals here are very much into the bullying mentality. I am not one to allow myself to be bullied by individuals like him.

By the way, you yourself are calling "Calvinism" (Reformed theology) nonsense. I take the position that non-Reformed theology is nonsense. So what is the difference? If you call my conviction "nonsense", and I am calling your conviction "nonsense" then how can you criticize me?

Seems like you're applying unequal measures.

The church I attend is Evangelical Free, and they hold kind of a semi-Reformed position but don't really push it on others. It usually works fairly well because it's a face-to-face situation and everyone tries to avoid hot topics. Not so here. Nehemiah6, Melach and others try to force their position on others through bullying.

In fact, I think that's the main reason for forums like this. A few people might want to learn, but it's mighty few. Instead, many want to push aberrant theologies or convince others of their positions, such as free-willers and dispensationalists.

A split personality. Not good.

And why should that be a problem for any Christian? After all the Bible tells us that the New Jerusalem is 1500 miles cubed [12,000 furlongs = 1,500 miles].

And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. (Rev 21:16)

Correct. He needs to abandon the dispy nonsense

It wouldn't be a problem if it is true. It's an obvious reference to the Most Holy Place where God's presence was manifested in a distinct manner at one point on earth. This Most Holy Place was a cube, too.

If you read Rev 21, it is obvious that it is talking about a changed planet where God's presence is manifested in a distinct manner. In fact, I believe it is symbolic of the entire creation, where God will "take up residence" like the original intention in the Garden of Eden.

It really isn't too hard to figure out if you don't put the dispy eyeglasses on, and interpret the passage in a literalizing way like they are prone to do.

The entire creation becomes God's "sacred place", just like the Garden of Eden was in the initial creation, and just like the Most Holy Place was in the camp of Israel.

Revelation 21 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem
9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16 The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal. 17 He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel's measurement. 18 The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
(ESV)

See, this is why I can't take dispensationalism seriously. They can't even reason past the end of their noses due to the hermeneutic they've been given by their teachers.

You got me all wrong. I was mainly responding to recovery from addiction. Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa aka Maranatha Village was the venue wher our christian recovery group used to meet besides Melody Land Christian center. I was also employed there. So I'm not to much of a Chuck Smith fan and haven't been To Calvary Chapel since 1986?

I certainly have had my fill of Christian television. Some times it seems like filling the time slot was more important than what was being espoused. I've seen people swoon at the likes of Dwight Thompson and Benny Hinn. Some folks are susceptible to the showman type personalities. That's for sure!

That's pretty interesting. I've been watching some Costi Hinn interviews and he discussed how those sorts of ministries are largely about the person. If you look at their books, often their faces are on the book in a prominent position.

Sorry if I got mixed up. I thought you were starting with the anti-Reformed bashing. I'm probably getting a bit defensive and suspicious. Some have even claimed Reformed theology is demonic. I'm used to those claims, though. If they can convince me that God doesn't choose or elect individuals, then they can convince me it's wrong. However, they can't convince me because it's obvious God elects individuals, and this can't be twisted around to claim God elects because of the person's choice.

So should we stop building rescue missions or stop going to places in order to share the word when we can? Why were we given the great commission?

To bring others the Gospel, and to disciple them.

God ordains both the end and the means.

Election does not negate any of this. I've told those guys that about a bazillion times.

In fact, until Charles Finney and his ilk came along, the greatest evangelists were Reformed.

And, Finney wasn't a great evangelist. He was a heretic who denied justification by faith alone, imputed righteousness, original sin and substitutionary atonement.

Unfortunately evangelicals have largely been influenced by Finney and his nonsense.

So If we are already chozen why must we ask the Lord into our lives? Didn't you investigate before deciding which teachings to follow? I stopped at amen in revelations the next that will be entirely correct will come from the Lord himself when he returns.