Reconciling Scripture/Bible As Unified Whole

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Elihoenai

Elihoenai

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#1
Nov 8, 2019
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#1
Psalm 110:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.



Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.



All Scriptures/Bible is the inspired word of Elohim/God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction. We cannot discard one jot or one tittle because of fear or inconvenience. For we are fearless and embrace inconvenient truths. Elohim/God wants Strong/Mighty Soldiers to fight his battles.

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?

Is it not true that the Real Enemies of Elohim/God are the incarnation/embodiment of Evil and in that case there is no separation between the person and the evil? If yes, that means the saying, "hate the evil and not the person", ceases to be possible.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
#2
Apr 10, 2019
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#2
There is a difference between hating those who are against God, and hating your personal enemies. The "hate the evil not the person" is not possible, that is not a Christian teaching but a hindu teaching from Gandhi. Psalms 5:5 says God hates the workers of evil

"The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers." - Psalm 5:5

Sometimes there is no need to reconcile two contradicting things. Such as:

We are told not to eat pig and many other things in Leviticus. Well God tells Noah to eat whatever is walking the earth. Is that a contradiction? No, it was a different covenant, one was the mosaic covenant and one was the covenant made with Noah that is still for us to see, everytime we see a rainbow.

There are certain truths that are constant throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, but when it comes to things that seem absolutely contradictory, the best way to reconcile is to understand the different covenants in which it was said.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#3
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
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113
#3
Elihoenai said:
Psalm 110:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.



Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.



All Scriptures/Bible is the inspired word of Elohim/God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction. We cannot discard one jot or one tittle because of fear or inconvenience. For we are fearless and embrace inconvenient truths. Elohim/God wants Strong/Mighty Soldiers to fight his battles.

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?

Is it not true that the Real Enemies of Elohim/God are the incarnation/embodiment of Evil and in that case there is no separation between the person and the evil? If yes, that means the saying, "hate the evil and not the person", ceases to be possible.
Click to expand...
The penalty for sin is death... In the OT God sometimes used people to carry out His wrath upon those who rebelled against His will.. Thus God established that the price of sin is death.. The Price of sin is still death.. But the NT established the Way of salvation for sinners who are facing the death penalty.. By believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins..

Of course if a person rejects Gods offer of Atonement for their sins then they shall have the second death which is by being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. So the death penalty will be carried out as it was in the OT.. What is different now is the process of Gods law and when and who will carry out the penalty upon the Law breakers.. In the OT God used people to carry out the death penalty.. But now God delays the judgement and the Angels will be the ones casting the guilty into the eternal lake of fire..

So we Christians show mercy upon sinners.. We love them by giving them the good news of the gospel way of salvation by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. The burden of carrying out the death penalty has been lifted off us and is now in the hands of the Angels and the death penalty has been delayed but not removed to the Day of judgement at the end of the current age..
 
Elihoenai

Elihoenai

Banned
#4
Nov 8, 2019
230
22
18
London, England
#4
TooFastTurtle said:
There is a difference between hating those who are against God, and hating your personal enemies. The "hate the evil not the person" is not possible, that is not a Christian teaching but a hindu teaching from Gandhi. Psalms 5:5 says God hates the workers of evil

"The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers." - Psalm 5:5

Sometimes there is no need to reconcile two contradicting things. Such as:

We are told not to eat pig and many other things in Leviticus. Well God tells Noah to eat whatever is walking the earth. Is that a contradiction? No, it was a different covenant, one was the mosaic covenant and one was the covenant made with Noah that is still for us to see, everytime we see a rainbow.

There are certain truths that are constant throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, but when it comes to things that seem absolutely contradictory, the best way to reconcile is to understand the different covenants in which it was said.
Click to expand...
We have falsified the saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and its variant "hate the evil not the person", as being Christian teaching. That certainly is not found in Scripture.

Quote:
"...The saying came from an Hindu, Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1929 autobiography!..."

Given that Elohim/God is perfect and does not make mistakes, why would he change a Law requirement from Noah to Moses? Is it possible that there is not a full comprehension of Elohim/God and that is why, apparent, contradictions are seen?


Hebrews 13:8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;


Hebrews 13:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#5
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#5
I will also add this: You stated in your post::

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?
Click to expand...
And you used this scripture to back this up::

Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Click to expand...
Note the scripture is talking about the Enemies of GOD.... It was not talking about the enemies of the Jews..

The Jews never succeeded in destroying any nation that God did not first order them to destroy.. Because the peoples that the Jews destroyed had opposed the will of God and thus where primarily Enemies of God.. The Jews where just being used as implements of Gods wrath upon Gods enemies.. When ever the Jews took it upon themselves to attack another nation without the expressed orders of God their attack always ended in disastrous defeat..
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#6
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
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113
#6
Elihoenai said:
We have falsified the saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and its variant "hate the evil not the person", as being Christian teaching. That certainly is not found in Scripture.

Quote:
"...The saying came from an Hindu, Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1929 autobiography!..."

Given that Elohim/God is perfect and does not make mistakes, why would he change a Law requirement from Noah to Moses? Is it possible that there is not a full comprehension of Elohim/God and that is why, apparent, contradictions are seen?


Hebrews 13:8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;


Hebrews 13:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Click to expand...
remember that just because God doesnt change it doesnt mean He cant do different covenants and give different commandments in those covenants.

and what do u think should be reconciled then between law requirement to noah and moses?
 
Elihoenai

Elihoenai

Banned
#7
Nov 8, 2019
230
22
18
London, England
#7
Adstar said:
The penalty for sin is death... In the OT God sometimes used people to carry out His wrath upon those who rebelled against His will.. Thus God established that the price of sin is death.. The Price of sin is still death.. But the NT established the Way of salvation for sinners who are facing the death penalty.. By believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins..

Of course if a person rejects Gods offer of Atonement for their sins then they shall have the second death which is by being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. So the death penalty will be carried out as it was in the OT.. What is different now is the process of Gods law and when and who will carry out the penalty upon the Law breakers.. In the OT God used people to carry out the death penalty.. But now God delays the judgement and the Angels will be the ones casting the guilty into the eternal lake of fire..

So we Christians show mercy upon sinners.. We love them by giving them the good news of the gospel way of salvation by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. The burden of carrying out the death penalty has been lifted off us and is now in the hands of the Angels and the death penalty has been delayed but not removed to the Day of judgement at the end of the current age..
Click to expand...
Elohim/God punishes the world for their Evil and their wickedness is returned upon their on head. Does Elohim/God give the Devil/Satan permission to execute his judgement upon Sinners through Devil/Satan Worshippers? Those that reject the truth must face the consequences.


Isaiah 13:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.



Job 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
 
Elihoenai

Elihoenai

Banned
#8
Nov 8, 2019
230
22
18
London, England
#8
Adstar said:
I will also add this: You stated in your post::



And you used this scripture to back this up::



Note the scripture is talking about the Enemies of GOD.... It was not talking about the enemies of the Jews..

The Jews never succeeded in destroying any nation that God did not first order them to destroy.. Because the peoples that the Jews destroyed had opposed the will of God and thus where primarily Enemies of God.. The Jews where just being used as implements of Gods wrath upon Gods enemies.. When ever the Jews took it upon themselves to attack another nation without the expressed orders of God their attack always ended in disastrous defeat..
Click to expand...
We are talking about the Enemies of Elohim/God. It is consistent throughout Hebrew Scripture that when Israel Disobey they are delivered into the hand of their enemies and when they Obey they are dominant and invincible over their enemies in the sight of Elohim/God.


Judges 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

6 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.

2 And the hand of Midian prevailed against Israel: and because of the Midianites the children of Israel made them the dens which are in the mountains, and caves, and strong holds.
 
Elihoenai

Elihoenai

Banned
#9
Nov 8, 2019
230
22
18
London, England
#9
Melach said:
remember that just because God doesnt change it doesnt mean He cant do different covenants and give different commandments in those covenants.

and what do u think should be reconciled then between law requirement to noah and moses?
Click to expand...
Is the covenants of Noah and Moses different covenants? How many covenants exist? Is there not only the Old and New Covenant?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#10
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
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#10
Elihoenai said:
Psalm 110:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.



Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.



All Scriptures/Bible is the inspired word of Elohim/God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction. We cannot discard one jot or one tittle because of fear or inconvenience. For we are fearless and embrace inconvenient truths. Elohim/God wants Strong/Mighty Soldiers to fight his battles.

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?

Is it not true that the Real Enemies of Elohim/God are the incarnation/embodiment of Evil and in that case there is no separation between the person and the evil? If yes, that means the saying, "hate the evil and not the person", ceases to be possible.
Click to expand...
Hate the evil and not the person is a commandment and is very much possible. When a person is born into this world by natural birth, they are totally depraved until God regenerates them by giving them a new spiritual life (Eph 2:5). After a person has been born again they do not lose their depraved nature. Paul tells us of his struggle of the flesh against the Spirit (Rom 7:14-25). The natural man, before he is regenerated has but one nature and that is the nature of man without the ability to understand the things of the Spirit. After they are born again they have two natures, one of the flesh and the other of the Spirit and these two are warring against each other within us until we die a natural death. This is why we must hate the sin and love the sinner of those who are born again.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#11
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
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#11
Adstar said:
The penalty for sin is death... In the OT God sometimes used people to carry out His wrath upon those who rebelled against His will.. Thus God established that the price of sin is death.. The Price of sin is still death.. But the NT established the Way of salvation for sinners who are facing the death penalty.. By believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins..

Of course if a person rejects Gods offer of Atonement for their sins then they shall have the second death which is by being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. So the death penalty will be carried out as it was in the OT.. What is different now is the process of Gods law and when and who will carry out the penalty upon the Law breakers.. In the OT God used people to carry out the death penalty.. But now God delays the judgement and the Angels will be the ones casting the guilty into the eternal lake of fire..

So we Christians show mercy upon sinners.. We love them by giving them the good news of the gospel way of salvation by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus.. The burden of carrying out the death penalty has been lifted off us and is now in the hands of the Angels and the death penalty has been delayed but not removed to the Day of judgement at the end of the current age..
Click to expand...
The Natural man, before he has been regenerated cannot understand the things of the Spirit and thinks them to be foolish (1 Cor 2:14). How then are we supposed to make them understand the good news of a spiritual gospel? We who are feeding upon the meat of the word should be consecrating upon loving the babes in Christ by giving them the good news of the gospel (meat) so that they will grow in faith to understand the meat of the word.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#12
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
1,185
113
#12
Elihoenai said:
We have falsified the saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and its variant "hate the evil not the person", as being Christian teaching. That certainly is not found in Scripture.

Quote:
"...The saying came from an Hindu, Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1929 autobiography!..."

Given that Elohim/God is perfect and does not make mistakes, why would he change a Law requirement from Noah to Moses? Is it possible that there is not a full comprehension of Elohim/God and that is why, apparent, contradictions are seen?


Hebrews 13:8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;


Hebrews 13:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Click to expand...
Luke 6:27, But I say unto you which hear, love your enemies (which can be of your own household, Matt 10:36) do good to them that hate you. This commandment to love is directed to the born again enemies.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
#13
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#13
Elihoenai said:
Is the covenants of Noah and Moses different covenants? How many covenants exist? Is there not only the Old and New Covenant?
Click to expand...
They are different covenants and there are more than two covenants....

God made a covenant with Abraham as well, there are many covenants in the Bible. Not just two, dont know where you got that idea from.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#14
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
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#14
Elihoenai said:
Elohim/God punishes the world for their Evil and their wickedness is returned upon their on head. Does Elohim/God give the Devil/Satan permission to execute his judgement upon Sinners through Devil/Satan Worshippers? Those that reject the truth must face the consequences.


Isaiah 13:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.



Job 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
Click to expand...
When we read about God punishing or chastening someone it will be directed toward his children whom he loves. Heb 12:6, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgest every son whom he receiverh. God does not chasten all mankind (Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men, neither are they PLAGUED like other men). The Greek meaning for Plagued is "divinely punished". There is a religious song written about this called "Farther along". The world that God chastens is the world of his elect.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#15
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#15
Elihoenai said:
Psalm 110:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.



Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.



All Scriptures/Bible is the inspired word of Elohim/God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction. We cannot discard one jot or one tittle because of fear or inconvenience. For we are fearless and embrace inconvenient truths. Elohim/God wants Strong/Mighty Soldiers to fight his battles.

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?

Is it not true that the Real Enemies of Elohim/God are the incarnation/embodiment of Evil and in that case there is no separation between the person and the evil? If yes, that means the saying, "hate the evil and not the person", ceases to be possible.
Click to expand...
David's feelings are very understandable, and he is confessing to God how he feels. He asks God to examine him, which is very praiseworthy and in due course he will find guidance, modify his thoughts accordingly and be a better person for it, having in the process of self examination grown in knowledge and grace.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#16
Jul 18, 2017
24,444
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#16
Elihoenai said:
How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?
Click to expand...
We need to be perfectly clear that (1) there are no contradictions in Scripture and (2) all Scripture can be reconciled with (a) the character of God and (b) the character and teachings of Christ.

PERSONAL ENEMIES -- "the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek"

ENEMIES OF GOD AND ISRAEL -- "Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies"
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#17
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#17
Elihoenai said:
Elohim/God punishes the world for their Evil and their wickedness is returned upon their on head. Does Elohim/God give the Devil/Satan permission to execute his judgement upon Sinners through Devil/Satan Worshippers? Those that reject the truth must face the consequences.
Click to expand...
Why would satan punish those who reject the will of God??? satan rewards those who oppose the will of God on earth..


Isaiah 13:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Click to expand...
Unrepentant sinners will face the penalty.. Repentant sinners who believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He has secured will be forgiven and redeemed..


Job 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
Click to expand...
Job was deemed by God to be a righteous man.. God allowed satan to put jobs righteousness to the test.. Job was not being punished for being in rebellion against God.. Job suffered to prove a point to satan and the angels..

We Christians are also called to be prepared to suffer tribulations from satan and his followers in this world.. Not because God is using satan to punish us for rebelling against God.. Job is an example for all those who will believe Jesus that they will be hated by the worldly for their love of the truth..
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#18
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#18
Elihoenai said:
We are talking about the Enemies of Elohim/God. It is consistent throughout Hebrew Scripture that when Israel Disobey they are delivered into the hand of their enemies and when they Obey they are dominant and invincible over their enemies in the sight of Elohim/God.


Judges 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

6 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.

2 And the hand of Midian prevailed against Israel: and because of the Midianites the children of Israel made them the dens which are in the mountains, and caves, and strong holds.
Click to expand...
Yes the LORD in the OT used people as implements of His wrath.. The Hebrews upon the Canaanites and later the Persians upon the Jews and later the Romans upon the Jews..
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#19
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#19
Elihoenai said:
Psalm 110:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Psalm 139:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

All Scriptures/Bible is the inspired word of Elohim/God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction. We cannot discard one jot or one tittle because of fear or inconvenience. For we are fearless and embrace inconvenient truths. Elohim/God wants Strong/Mighty Soldiers to fight his battles.

How do you reconcile that in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament Israel are commanded to utterly annihilate their enemies while in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament the command is to love your enemies and turn/offer the other cheek?

Is it not true that the Real Enemies of Elohim/God are the incarnation/embodiment of Evil and in that case there is no separation between the person and the evil? If yes, that means the saying, "hate the evil and not the person", ceases to be possible.
Click to expand...
Think of it as the old man, the nature of the flesh being put to death,

you were at one time strangers and enemies Col.1:21
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Col.3:5
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#20
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#20
Adstar said:
Yes the LORD in the OT used people as implements of His wrath.. The Hebrews upon the Canaanites and later the Persians upon the Jews and later the Romans upon the Jews..
Click to expand...
I think that is just an excuse to invade another land. That is like saying God used Hitler to exterminate the Jews. Why do you think God said not to murder! I'm beginning to think Satan is not one evil spirit as I have always thought, I'm beginning to think the majority of people are satanic when I read messages like that. Not saying it represents anyone here, just pointing out the danger of putting words into action.
 
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