Prophesying Forbidden

This starts with 'if' and is therefore hypothetical.


23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

If I could show you two sections of scripture where the same words are repeated as prophecies twice, is the one given at the later date not prophecy?

I love that bolded part of 1 Cor. 14:25 I "snipped" from your post there.
Cuz, it is the explanation of several different places in the N.T., where it is said they "were pricked in/to their hearts!"
Or? Convicted!
1 Corinthians 14
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

The Lord said the scriptures are not of private interpretation. That was not Peters interpretation. The Holy Spirit says the scriptures are not of private interpretation.

Private interpretations are commentaries of men as the witness of men seen . God's interpretation is called sola scriptura of God not seen. The witness of God the greater.

We are not to compare our personal interpretation as a heresy or opinion of the things not seen to His interpretation (sola scriptura) If they do not agree then we need to study to seek His approval.

The gift of prophesying which is declaring the written will of God (the gospel) is active. It as the power of God is still casting out lying spirits called demon raises those dead in their trespasses and sin to new spirit life.

Mark 16:17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Again tongues are prophecy. True tongues is simply prophecy.

Adding to the perfect word sealed with 7 seven seals men use it in a false way to edify themselves as if they received confirmation from heaven and fall back called slain in the spirit to show they do not have God's approval . But in reality it is a sign against those who do not hold to what is called sola scriptura. . . (prophecy. ) Jesus said yet for all the prophecy that has been given they reject it and do whatsoever their own mouths says and see no evil in doing so. . A sign as a law against unbelieving mankind.(1 Corinthians 14:22-23)

Bringing the gospel seed into the world called our new tongue as new creatures (Christians) is something that follows our new born again experience. Spiritual gifts not seen.

No such thing as "sign gift" to confirm a person is heard on high. We walk by faith the unseen eternal. We have his witness in us not of us.

The two words "sign" (outward, viewable confirming a person is heard on high ) and the word "gift" are not used together to make a doctrine that could come from above. We walk by faith the eternal not seen not by sight after the temporal seen.

Those who do seek after a signs and wonders gospel are called rebels or a evil generation. Those who have no faith, natural man . . Men that seek after signs and wonders before they will believe (themselves)

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Revelation is the last book sealed with seven seals and a warning not to add or substract from the perfect .The perfect spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13 had come. New prophecy (thus sayeth the lord I had a vision or dream ) which could bring new knowledge has ceased .
There are no laws missing by which we could know him more adequately.

Prophecies and revelations not included in the Bible are part of the book of prophecy .Prophecy is limited to the word of God (sola scriptura) as it is written.

Private interpretations as the witness of men like Peter in John 21, who said John would remain alive till Christ returned. Jesus rebuked him and informed us that the whole world would not be able to hold the books if every time he prophesied and exposed the lies of those who would add. .

So yes there is more than meets the eye god is still working in the hearts of believers . But it has no reflection on the perfect .It is sealed with 7 seals. We live within its boundaries the sword of the Spirit. it works in us and defends us as we defend (sola scriptura) it.not adding to it or subtracting from it.. . .as it is written . It is the reforming authority in any generation.

It is therefore very clear from scripture that not all prophecies are in scripture as it is written . The word it represrnting the unseen work of God faith faith moving men to record them Therefore, your assumption that someone prophesying is adding to the book of Revelation, or the Bible, is clearly false. Prophesying does not destroy the seven seals. Your argument does not line up with scripture.

It is very clear from scripture that all prophecies (the word of God) are contained in scripture. The ones that were not written are forbidden from being added. no movement by God to add the to the last book revelation. many during the 400 year silent period tried to bring in their privation interpretations . just because 2000 years has passed by .it does not men we can start added what we think he would move us to write.

Prophesying is declaring the word of God. God is not adding . if any man says Lo is Christ I had a dream we are to believe not.
Again prophesying is declaring the word of God .Adding to it is adding to it.

Peter in Mathew 16 with his own private interpretation attempted to add to the gospel by making it without effect. He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man. Today seeing the Son of man, Jesus is no longer here that would not be possible to forgive.

You have misread this verse. It says "no prophecy of scripture", not "no scripture". That is a very important distinction. It also means that Scripture contains prophecy, but is not only prophecy.

That is incorrect, in the context of this verse. "Private interpretation" means the prophet's own interpretation of events and signs, not of Scripture itself.

You have rejected clear and plain Scripture on this matter, in favour of your own private interpretation.

You have been told repeatedly that nobody is trying to add to Scripture. Your stubbornness and unteachableness on this matter is truly amazing.

While that is not, in itself, incorrect, the way you are using it is. Prophesying is not the same as reading Scripture or teaching from it.

you suggest the word "if " makes verse 23 hypothetical? That is a big stretch because the context is not. Hypothetical, no, but conditional yes. nothing Paul has said was hypothetical in chapter 14 it was conditional.

This conditional deals with “real” conditions. We don’t call it “real” because it has already happened: we call it real because it *always* happens this way. We use this to describe a condition with an absolutely predictable result—in other words, to state a fact.

• If you stick your fingers in the fire, they get burned. (fact—happens every time)

Paul is saying vs 23 "if" you in the church are all speaking in tongues and someone comes in unlearned will they not say you all are mad? That is a fact. He goes on to say vs 24
"But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all "
the word " but" is used as a conjunction but can be used as a preposition too. The context of chapter 14 is not to be seen as hypothetical.

anyone who loves their Lord and Saviour and who truly follows His ways day-by-day, can discern what is going
to happen in a real sense, as our 'world' has shown its bowels to the max, from all of the days gone by...
and so;
those of us who can certainly SEE and KNOW the RESULTS of these by gone actions from the beginning of mankind =
(our fate is obvious).....

our ''beloved brothers and sisters" are awaiting our Holy Saviour's Promises, = it won't be long...

And if it comes to pass it was from a true prophet and if it doesn't it wasn't 🤷🏼‍♀️😁...

Cessationistic......love it!!😁👍👌

You were using similar terminology, but in a weird way. Hence my comment.
[quote[
Private interpretations are commentaries of men as the witness of men seen . God's interpretation is called sola scriptura of God not seen. The witness of God the greater.[/quote]

'Sola scriptura' is not in the Bible. The teaching of the Bible has more authority than one man's 'private interpretation' of what 'sola scriptura' means.

If you want to complain about men creatively making up doctrine, you do not have much room to talk.
In the Bible, we see shortly after disciples actually speaking in other languages. Jesus and the apostles cast out actual demonic entities, not mere metaphors.

{quote]
Adding to the perfect word sealed with 7 seven seals men use it in a false way to edify themselves as if they received confirmation from heaven and fall back called slain in the spirit to show they do not have God's approval . But in reality it is a sign against those who do not hold to what is called sola scriptura. . . (prophecy. ) Jesus said yet for all the prophecy that has been given they reject it and do whatsoever their own mouths says and see no evil in doing so. . A sign as a law against unbelieving mankind.(1 Corinthians 14:22-23)[/quote]

Have you ever played Madlibs? That paragraph looks like word salad or idea salad. We can know what prophesying means from seeing what it actually means in the Bible. We should not reinterpret it to mean some definition developed in the past few hundred years. THe Bible lists prophecy among the gifts of the Spirit given to the saints to edify the body of Christ.
Who are you talking to? The term 'sign gifts' is a part of the elaborate set of excuses certain cessationists use for arguing that God does not do miracles or work in certain other spiritual gifts through people. The Bible demonstrates and teaches that the Spirit gives certain gifts as He wills, and some of those can be supernatural in nature. You seem to have a problem with this, that this might result in God 'confirming a person'. But the Bible does not present this as a problem. You also have no right to tell God that He may not bear witness to a person or their message.

The man who wrote the scripture that we walk by faith and not by sight did miracles and taught that the Spirit gifted members of the body of Christ to do miracles, with gifts of healing, to prophesy, etc. You are the one who has a problem with this. Paul apparently did not.
I have debunked your faulty reasoning in the past. The apostles asked Jesus for a sign, and He answered them. The apostles prayed for God to stretch forth His hand to heal and to do signs and wonders for the sake of Jesus.

Jesus rebuked certain people who asked Him for a sign telling them an evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign. Didn't those people eat bread and fish, too? Can I conclude that you are wicked and adulterous if you eat fish or bread? Is that logical? If a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign, then is anyone who asks for a sign wicked and adulterous? If you say yes, then you had better not eat bread or fish either.
Paul's speech, knowledge, and understanding after the perfect comes will be so much more advanced than the speech knowledge and understanding he had when he wrote I Corinthians that it would be like a child's in comparison. Do you understand the mysteries of God so well that Paul's understanding was like that of a child?

Why do you keep repeating ideas that the apostles did not teach, then?


You are really confused. You need to read John again.

John 21
23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
(NKJV)

This is evidence that not everything Jesus, Jesus Who revealed the Father, did was recorded in scripture.
Your first and second sentence contradict each other. Name one person who has tried to add a true prophecy to the Bible. The restriction in Revelation is on adding to 'this scroll'. They had many scrolls with the scriptures in them, so your extrapolation is something that probably would not have made sense to the the readers.

I don't see anyone adding Micaiah's other prophecies about Ahab to the Bible, or the prophecies of the prophets in first century Corinth to scripture, or modern prophecies given in church. your argument is a red herring and a straw man, which is a stinky mess.

I believe my usage of 'hypothetical' was fairly standard English. You should consider expanding your vocabulary insofar as it relates to the meaning of this term.

do not start insulting. I have provide why I disagree with your point. I gave you my explanation as i see " Conditional" as it is in the context of chapter 14. If you do not agree so be it but rudeness and insults I will not stand for.

I did not mean that as insulting or rude. I meant tht seriously. 'Hypothetical' covers situations described in the passage as well.

Ok that's fine I hear you and I do agree, however, would you also agree that "conditional" is too or could applicational? I will explain further why I do after you answer my question, please.

Hi thanks for the reply.

'Sola scriptura' is simply all things written in the law and the prophets the two witnesses God has assigned to reveal His thoughts . The "law and the prophets" typified by Moses and Elijah. Or called the letter of the law and the unseen power of faith

The interpretation of one God. And not the witness of man as a private interpretation.

'Sola scriptura' is the reforming authority that used to restore the government of God in any generation. Any size denomination or any person that walks according to his name or authority as it is written .

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Not complaining but rather discussing. You should be able to prove that I do make up doctrines.

The doctrines of God are limited to the word of God (sola scriptura) . It was the reforming authority as shown with Jesus in Mathew 4 when the father of lies attempted to change the direction of the gospel by bringing a false vision into the mind of Jesus . Three times with three denoting the end of a matter the father gave the Son of man, Jesus the words . . . as it is written again and again as it written . Sola scriptura caused the spirit of error to flee the power to cast out demons..

Exactly they were speaking in known languages .The known languages as the gospel or called the new tongue as a sign not visible. No outward sign that confirmed they had the Holy Spirit . no sign gift .we walk by faith the unseen eternal . All die as spoken of in Hebrews 11: 39 having not received the promise of a new incorruptible body .

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Yes prophesying is to declare the will of God as it is written . Sola scriptura has always been the law by which we could try the spirits to see if they are of God or private interpretations of men. It worked to restore the government during the first century reformation as well as the 15 th .Or again any time the government of God is re-established

No one said God is not performing miracles. He simply is not adding to his witness confirming this one or that one . Miracles are a common work of God. Curing a common cold is not any different than moving a surgeons hands to bring his will .

God is not served by human hands....

I have debunked your faulty reasoning in the past. The apostles asked Jesus for a sign, and He answered them. The apostles prayed for God to stretch forth His hand to heal and to do signs and wonders for the sake of Jesus.

The sign given to the apostles was the sign of the times wars and rumors eathqukes etc. Things continuing just as in the days of Noah . He came like a thief in the night. Not a sign that we could look for as if the kingdom did come by observing the temporal corrupted.

Jesus resisted doing works to be seen looking to the temporal as if the kingdom of God did come by what the eyes see. Rather than a person walking by faith the unseen eternal.

The faithless Jews made Him into a circus seal saying . ."Show us something then we will believe".

No such thing as a sign gift .Signs are for those who rebel. .. prophecy for those who believe not seeing.

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

The sign of the prophet Jonas, the gospel, the new tongue as it written (sola scriptura)

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Refuted many times, but you keep repeating it. Why do I bother trying to teach someone so unteachable?

I think of a 'conditional' primarily as a grammatical term, if we are talking about 'if', and 'hypothetical' as a semantic term.

Still waiting for the first time. Did you read the law? Tongues is God prophesying. As to those who would not hear the word of God prophecy is a sign against them .Prophecy for those who walk by faith as it is written or called sola scriptura. The true witness.

Unseen signs as spiritual gifts follow those who do beleive prophecy . They will speak with their new tongue, the gospel .it as it is written can drive out demons as lying spirits.

Note... red Spirit of faith as it is written prophecy

Note... green belivers with living faith

Note... orange those who have no faith used to represent faithless mankind.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

The Bible does not say 'sola scriptura.' I am trying to decipher the sentence fragments, but I Corinthians shows that tongues had a function in regard to the church and also in regard to unbelievers. To the church, accompanied by the gift of interpretation, it edifies. Toward unbelievers, it is a sign, 'and yet for all that, ye will not hear me', as Paul quotes from the book of the prophet Isaiah.

After the events described in Mark 16, believers actually spoke in tongues they had never spoken before as seen in Acts 2, so why should we accept your allegorical interpretation? Jesus, the apostles, and others cast out demons. Jesus cast out all kinds of spirits. Why would it be limited to lying spirits.

Note...

Click to expand...

My colors are set different, but that doesn't really clear anything up, just bouncing around between colors. In the original context, the Assyrians were not men of living faith, either when they dragged Hebrew-speaking Israelites into captivity, probably yelling at them in Aramaic to keep marching. In the church, men of faith might speak in tongues and a visitor might be full of unbelief.

Paul's use of this quote was part of his argument regarding the need to interpret speaking in tongues in church.

Ok,
th reason why the grammatical term to me is not seen as hypothetical and more conditional is the context of 1cor 14 starts in chapter 11. 1cor chapter 11 to 14 are known as "Unit chapters", I am sure you know this. The context of those chapter is addressing error and providing correction that was going on at that time Paul was led by the Holy Spirit to give correction. what were thy doing ?

1cor 11:17

"Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse."
what were they doing?

1. divisions among you
2. drunkness
3. eating the Lords Supper unworthy

Now Paul continues in chapter 12 with correction and instruction concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit
1cor 12:1
"Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: "

everything he is saying is in context to the condition of the church in Corinth. As I said chapter 11 through 14 are unit chapters and are contextually one. With all the thing addressed by Paul in chapter 11, 12, 13 and 14 how much of it was hypothetical over conditional? I would argue the present condition of the church in Corinth was not at all Hypothetical but literal. In Chapter 14 where is is said 1cor 14:6

"If': But now, brethren, "if "I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

This could be hypothetical but from the context given by the unit chapters from 11 to 14 nothing appears to be so. It is more applicable in my understand that there were those who were speaking in tongues inappropriately than not. so the grammatical term must be applied to be conditional from what has already been given. "IF" is not contextually used as a hypothetical in this context in this passage or supported by the previous unit chapters.

You stated, "Signs are for those who rebel". That is NOT true according to the Scriptures. Don't sidestep the issue at hand.