Not By Works

I agree........it is ALL Christ or it is fraudulent.....

Let's see how this goes...

Jesus (God) deals faith in measure <--no self effort in that
Jesus BEGINS faith in us <---no self effort in that
Jesus FINISHES faith in us <---no self effort in that
Jesus SAVES ETERNALLY by the above faith <--No self effort in that
Jesus COMPLETES THE WORK OF FAITH IN US <--No self effort in that
GOD imputes the righteousness of CHRIST to US by above FAITH <--NO self effort in that
GOD positionally sanctifies us in Christ by above faith <--No self effort in that
GOD gifts us salvation irrevocably by above faith <--NO self effort in that
CHRIST produces the fruit in US as the ROOT <--No self effort in that (branches BEAR, they do not produce)
Holy Spirit SEALS us by above faith <---NO self effort in that
Christ keeps us by HIS POWER though above faith <---No self effort in that
Christ RAISES us by HIS power <---No self effort in that
Christ MEDIATES for us by HIS priesthood <---NO self effort in that
CHRIST washes us in HIS BLOOD by above faith <---NO SELF effort in that
CHRIST justifies us by his BLOOD through above faith <---NO self effort in that
God raises us to sit in heavenly places in Christ <---No self effort in that
The Holy Spirit reveals the truth to us by above faith <--No self effort in that
GOD created and made MAN <---No self effort in that
God in Christ regenerates us <---NO self effort in that

and ON and ON and ON

IT is ALL GOD/JESUS or it is FAKE, FRAUDULENT.......

MANY will say...HAVE WE NOT DONE <----interject SELF into any of the above truths will DEVALUE and VOID the above truth

SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST!

I will take that list and run with it btw. THANKS.

Neither I nor Paul said we stay saved because of behaviour after being saved. Paul said, and I agreed, that “we are Christ’s house and have been made partakers of Christ if we hold fast our confidence till the end.

That means we hold fast because we are saved. It does NOT mean we are saved because we hold fast.

Taking note of things like verb tenses is critically important

I was being sarcastic when I said the apostles taught OSAS every time they preach.

I was being sarcastic when I said the apostles taught OSAS every time they preach. My point was, osas was not preached as something you were required to believe to be saved. What they did was preach repentance towards God and faith in Jesus, and teaching of doctrine came afterwards to the convert. So salvation is instant, but learning of correct doctrine takes years.

Still awaiting documentation.

Yet most of us know there is none.

All who are truly converted "continue" and that by God's grace; Philippians 2:11-13

Have you ever considered running for political office?

So you can learn from Noah without having to follow the instructions he received from Scripture.

You cannot do likewise for the instructions James gave to the 12 tribes?

You do not UNDERSTAND dittely, do you?

The Bible was WRITTEN FOR ALL BELIEVERS, and in some the had specific focuses groups that should also Pay Attention. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY LESS FOR EVERYONE OF US BELIEVERS. IT IS CALLED THE LIVING WORD, and I have HEARD IT SPEAK DIRECTLY TO MY HEART IN A Multitude of Scripture References; INCLUDING THE BOOK OF JAMES. How do I know, I SAYS SO, AND IT HAS SPOKEN TO MY HEART. AND IF YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD IT SPEAKING TO YOUR HEART, THAT ONLY HAPPENS ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (NASB)
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 (HCSB)
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you,
15 and you know that from childhood you have known the sacred Scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

James 1:25 (HCSB)
25 But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but one who does ⌊good⌋ works—this person will be blessed in what he does.

Proverbs 1:5-6 (YLT)
5 (The wise doth hear and increaseth learning, And the intelligent doth obtain counsels.)
6 For understanding a proverb and its sweetness, Words of the wise and their acute sayings.

Psalm 1:1-2 (HCSB)
1 How happy is the man who does not follow the advice of the wicked or take the path of sinners or join a group of mockers!
2 Instead, his delight is in the LORD’s instruction, and he meditates on it day and night.

Of course I blame Calvin.
He's the one who got the heresy of once saved always saved (rooted in the teachings of the Gnostics) accepted in the church. Of course the only way that could happen is a new church had been created, for it had been fiercely resisted right from the beginning of the church.

Any church or individual that teaches works earn salvation should be a red flag.

The problem is, you and others think believing is one of those works.

What you and others can't defend with the Bible is how believing in Christ is a work that can not justify.

As far as I can tell, the fundamental argument being defended by once saved always saved is if YOU do the believing that is a work and, therefore, YOU trying to earn your own salvation.

That's so incredibly ignorant of what Paul himself teaches. 'Works' is not defined by 'anything YOU do'. It is defined as doing the works of the law in order to be declared righteous by God for doing those works. And Paul plainly says, believing in Christ is not one of those works, and even says faith in Christ is utterly opposed to doing works of the law for justification. This, I'm sure, is the crux of the problem--a whole vein of doctrine that thinks believing in Christ can somehow be a self righteous work.

I will add to this "despite the fact that a believer MAY fall for a season, but I believe that God has and uses means to restore the backslider in heart and life. If he didn't, I wouldn't be here today."

He has been asked this question but not yet answered...
@dcontroversal calls him Ralph...

I've heard more than one person refer to you as "Ralph." Are you the previous member "Ralph" who has returned to Christian Chat with a different avatar name?

In post #117,063 I asked Judges1318 if he was Ralph..



But I'm yet to receive an answer. Dodging the question by refusing to answer the question generally equates to "guilty as charged."

The completed action ENDS if you no longer hold fast what you heard.
This is consistent with Romans 11. You're interpretation is not.

The simple completed fact of being a partaker will stay that way IF you have the snapshot action, that may or may not continue, of holding fast.

I disagree with the premise that the concept of eternal life and eternal security was not tied in with the gospel.....JESUS used the words ETERNAL, EVERLASTING, NEVER perish, LOSE NONE, RAISE UP ALL, they shall never die, etc....and even JOB understood this truth.....

The key is what is being "held fast?"

Also another important point is the reference to Christ's house.

You know salvation is not always in view.... especially taking into account the letter is written to believers, as all the letters are.

I do not see this at all... you know the word saved means "saved"... there really does not need to be additional modifiers.. why would they even have to teach OSAS when the Gospel is eternal security.

It is the NOSAS crowd that do not understand the word "salvation"