Describe OSAS in terms of this passage.....

Note Romans 5:10 has two parts, 1) A reconciliation to the Father through Christs sacrifice 2) A shall be saved (future tense). Why was it written "shall be saved" as opposed to just "are saved". Given any thought to this?

Herewith the reason. Salvation has three aspects: As can be seen below:

Romans 5v1,2
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

There are three aspects to our salvation. By reducing salvation to just one aspect, many will end up arguing for days and days on end (years and years). One will quote aspect number 1, and another will try refute with aspect number 2. These however are not contradictory. The bible is not contradictory.

All three Persons of the Godhead are involved in the three aspects of our common salvation.

Look carefully at the verse above:

1) We cannot be saved unless we come through the door of Jesus Christ. We are JUSTIFIED by his blood through faith in Christ Jesus, which brings PEACE with GOD. This is aspect number 1. There is no part 2 or 3 unless you come through Jesus. There is no way to the Father but by Jesus. There are hundreds of scriptures which establish this basic truth. None of us actually argue against this point. I will say it once more, just for emphasis ---- NONE of us are arguing this point.

2) We have the Spirit of Grace, the Holy Spirit, who also has a part in our salvation, but it is NOT in conflict with part 1 above. Read the scripture above once again. ------ "through whom also we have access by faith into this GRACE in which we stand". We have access to the Holy Spirit through Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace. It is a NOW moment. Where we currently stand. Its living out our lives in the HERE AND NOW. Whereas part 1 above refers to JUSTIFICATION, this part 2 refers to SANCTIFICATION. Its a separating ourselves from the world and worldliness. Continually transforming our minds. Becoming more Christlike. Growing in God. Growing in Love. This is also VERY MUCH a part of our salvation, as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. To those who OVERCOME He will give the right to eat from the tree of life. There is a daily OVERCOMING. A daily picking up of our cross. There are hundreds of scriptures establishing this basic truth. Herein lies the battle for the Christian, Flesh vs Spirit and Spirit vs Flesh. Our choices remain to either live according to the flesh or the Spirit. These decisions are made in our inner man. In our soul.

3) We now have God the Father, who participates in the final concluding chapter of our Salvation, namely GLORIFICATION. It is at this point, when we come into His glorious presence that we are given new resurrected bodies (Glorified bodies). Bodies which cannot sin for they no longer have the corruption that we have been dragging around since Adam. This final chapter of Glorification to awarded to those who have overcome. How do we overcome? 1 John 5 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? There are also hundreds of scriptures pointing to the glorification of the saints.

None of the above is possible without Faith. We should all agree on this fact. But simply bypassing the journey, by the Holy Spirit, and simply dismissing the work of sanctification is very much unlikely to get you to the point of Glorifiction. For if you live by Faith, the life you live in part 2 will bring you through as an overcomer.

On the contrary, sin is wickedness. Someone who was a believer, who then truns to wickedness, will be considered wicked by the Lord if they don't confess and repent of this wickedness. This can be seen in the very parable we are talking about. We can also see this in God's character when addressing this in Ezekiel 18:

21 “But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

No one is saying you should not forgive here. Forgiveness actually benefit you a lot more than the person you are forgiving.

But you are linking it to salvation, which is a silly link, in the new covenant of grace. Now we forgive others because we have already been forgiven. Ephesians 4:32

The same book of Hebrews also stated clearly, in Hebrews 9:16

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

So when did Jesus die and when was his offering? Did it take place during the passage in Matthew that you used?

Ahh, you want to answer my previous question on whether you are a red letter Christian? Nothing embarrassing, you have the right to hold any belief you want.

Still quoting Hebrews I see... smh I thought Hebrews was for tribulation only? Youre such a hypocrite. Quit with your fallacies already.

You have a habit of jumping into other people's discussion and add nothing to them, other than making personal attacks.

You can learn things from Hebrews even though its not the tribulation yet. All scripture is written for our benefit.

Great job Chris!! I applaud you!! You ripped apart their entire doctrine. Tip of the iceburg, theres many more scriptures that shreds that false doctrine to pieces. Anyone with ears to hear should listen!

I see a few here who are BLIND! Trying to remain in ignorance, relying in other scriptures to denounce the WORDS OF CHRIST! THE VERY ONE WHOM THESE PEOPLE CLAIM TO FOLLOW! Do they not know that scripture does not contradict itself?? He who hates his brother whom he can see how can you say you love God whom you cannot see?!? If you do not forgive you too shall not be forgiven!!

JESUS TAUGHT IN PARABLES FOR THESE REASONS, anyone who lacks understanding in these truths remains in DARKNESS.. Its clear to see who you all are too. Dont deceive yourselves. GOD SEES EVERYTHING! Empty words are meaningless. It takes faith put into practice! Doers of the Word not only hearers of the Word. The righteous shall LIVE BY FAITH!

Its a public forum. Its not jumping into peoples conversation. You should take your own advice and learn from Hebrews. It tears apart your entire false belief.

This right here is the biggest joke of a fraud ive heard on this entire site! Red letter Christian? You mean the Words Jesus Spoke? That the Christian you are referring to? And what does that make the opposite? Answer that question Guojing... what does that make YOU?

Try googling that term, its an actual group of Christians in existence.

Still don't know how these verses relate to OSAS issue.. They are about how one enters into a state of being saved..

I do learn plenty from Hebrews, just as I do from James.

I googled it.. guess what. Says they follow the new testament teachings primarily on what Jesus taught. Go figure! Thats what Christians are supposed to do! Follow Christ! Christ is the head of the church. It is because of Christ we are saved! So why would you feel the need to bring that up in this discussion? And imply no need to be embarassed?? Ashamed of Christ?? Are you kidding me?

Answer my question guojing.. what does that make you since you are not a red letter Christian..?

The Lord's Prayer comes to mind, but I guess it isn't that important?

Without God's forgiveness, can we be saved? Another thought:

Did you know that Christ said the same thing in John 3.16 as He did in Matthew 24.13? It's true!

How does this fit in?

[if u doubt, ask Sister Angela to tell you the correct translation for believer in John 3.16]

I like to understand where other people come from, the background of their doctrine. This is so that I can understand better their point of view.

You should try that sometimes too. It will make discussions more cordial and more Christian like.

26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.

I have emphasised additional red letters for the red letter words. In case anybody misses this scripture.

Ive been going back and forth with you for MONTHS. Youre not a Christian. So quit wavering from the question. The answer you were looking for is "charlatan".

Matthew 16: KJV
21 "¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. {22} Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. {23} But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

If Peter was a believer in the Atonement that the LORD Jesus would secure by His death on the cross Peter would never have reacted like this.. Rebuking Jesus and telling Him that he would not be killed.. Peter would have accepted this statement of Jesus, knowing it was the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus that would see him saved..

Lets look at the reaction of the 11 apostles when the woman came back from the tomb to tell them that Jesus had risen from the dead..

Luke 24: KJV
9 "And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. {10} It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. {11} And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not."

So if Peter and the other Apostles believed Jesus when he said He would rise again from the dead, Why did they disbelieve the report of the woman that Jesus was risen?

So no Peter was not a Christian until he understood and had accepted the Way of Salvation Jesus had provided to Peter on the cross.. Before he came to that knowledge He did not understand the Way of salvation..

This is very clearly in line with the doctrine of eternal security....


When we are born again, and made sons or daughters of God He places a new heart within us. This new heart nor what it produces will save us, the righteousness of Christ will still be what justifies us come judgement.

That being said, a born again son of God is not going to think it's ok to do what that servant did. Not only do we have the indwelling Holy spirit to convict us and show us when we are wrong or how to walk in Gods will but God has given us new hearts which DESIRE to conform to His will.


This servant not only made the first offence, to place his hands on the indebted, but did not forgive him in verse 30... also to place this person in prison until they pay is completely void of love.


These verses are not a what to do and not to do list to make it, but a demonstration of what Gods power looks like in the hearts of His children....


We don't only forgive 70 x 70.... we never do not forgive....


The goggles you wear probably make every verse a how to save yourself or condemn yourself type of deal... but nope... this has nothing to do with the "loss of salvation" and much to do with our new hearts in regards to forgiveness