What about these verses:
James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
*Notice - Brethren, if anyone
"among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out
"from" us, but they were
"not of" us..
IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My
soul [psuche] is deeply grieved,
to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about
physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and
every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is,
eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely
(saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7).
Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But
love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for
"love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will only get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.
So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is "physical death" (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Believers are not passive in continuing in sound doctrine, but it's not merely in our own power that we continue. God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through continuing in sound doctrine, as we
continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well.
If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out of the well, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope and allowing that person to pull you out of the well, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and
ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? Allow me to explain why:
First, his heart condition is
contrasted with that of the
"good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was
"good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "
shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner
not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel
without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
*IN CONTRAST TO Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on
good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the
good ground are those who,
having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with perseverance. So the
rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a
lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and
good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a
noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with perseverance.
*Unlike saving belief,
temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can
no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons
believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a
stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was
superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be
slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they
did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
If anyone could answer these verses in light of OSAS as you did with the previous one I asked and VCO did with the other two, I would appreciate it. Help me put it all together mates.
Glad to help mate.
