Western Churches. Are they becoming Worldly?

If you are sensear, and not just baiting your hook, I know of a church that does not pay their preachers a salary. They do not go to a school to learn to preach, and most have regular jobs, unless they are retired. They never ask for donations. They sing acapella, pray, and preach the whole word of God, with scripture quotes for one hour and do not prepare with notes beforehand. Sometimes they don't know what they are going to preach about before they stand behind the pulpit. After the preaching is over, they sing a song and during the singing of it, they walk around and hug or shake each others hand. After the dismissal prayer, they have a serve yourself meal and visit with each other while eating. Does this interest you? They are few in number, because most people want to be entertained.

Seeing western churches mostly online, I can say many are in fact teaching things people itch to hear. Living in a predominantly RC country, most Christian churches are not very big here and still quite traditional. Our senior pastor teaches mostly from Scripture, where his powerpoint presentations are often bible verses, with a little illustration or example here and there. As there is rotation of preachers from deacons, there is some change or variety in teaching, but I do not say it is becoming worldly. As preaching is geared towards a rural community with both young and older members still young in faith, we do not get teachings as of Steven Ben-nun or Amir Tsarfati, wc we can listen to online when we need or want more 'advanced' or modern teaching, however.

I am quite comfortable in a church we have started to attend in Manila. A member of the Alliance of Bible Christian Churches of the Philippines, it is the mother church of another we have previously attended, where they still sing many hymns. In the latter, about the most modern song I heard after attending a few times, was 'He Is Exalted.' Altho there may be a special number once in a while, I know it is not exactly what the people look forward to, but the straightforward Bible teaching, the joyful congregational singing (also from a small choir), and the fellowship even in the city, where they have established outreach to some local tricycle drivers and Muslim community nearby. They have missions here and abroad too.

What are people expecting from sermons? Sermons are not usually Bible studies, the pastor cannot dive deep into a topic. If a pastor preaches about love, that's fine with me. Some people need to hear it every week. Pastors need to bring people to Christ, show His love, that He is with us in the midst of our troubles, everything else will follow. By teaching the congregation how to be more Christ-like, pastors are indirectly talking about sin. Instead of talking about sin, pastor can talk about having a pure heart. Most people do not really want to listen to fire and brimstone sermons. When a pastor says all who accept Jesus will be saved, it is already implied that those who have not are not saved. That is enough.

I am told the Quakers originally would gather together and sit until the Holy Spirit moved upon them, one or more, to speak or praise. There were no pastors per se as we understand but all were ministers of the Word. I truly like the idea, and it sounds a lot like what you have explained here. Thank you. All blessings in Jesus, Yeshua.

Most. Not all.

Some non-Western churches can be mighty worldly as well.

they still do.
I like not having a sermon sometimes and just be in the presence of God.
I feel sometimes preachers phone in their sermons and think they have to say something to fill in the 30 minutes or however long they have, and to go through their Bible lesson plan or lectionary that someone else has already written up for them.

Its like teachers that do everything by the book instead of letting the spirit move them. We already have the book we can refer to at any time, not just those 30 minutes when someone else is speaking.

Unfortunately it's not just "liberal" seminaries anymore. Graduates of conservative seminaries, while technically still "conservative" theologically, are watering down their messages and filling their churches with psycho-pop philosophy to try to be "relevant." It's very disheartening and depressing...

Absolutely they have. When I realized I was going to an evangelical church, listening to praise and worship music and getting through half a service without hearing Jesus mentioned I realized it was time for a change. A friend of mine and I left the church about the same time and started studying church history. He became confessional Lutheran, I became Orthodox.

So just hunker down because the devil's getting it all? Do we do anything about it? Or just sit back and pray and wait for....??? What? Jesus to bring an earthly kingdom we can point to and say "there it is", just like He told us we couldn't do? I'm sorry to hit you with so many questions, but I ask because I feel that this view is like a wet towel thrown on His fire in us. It the most "popular" view in America

First, the devil isn’t getting it all. Jesus did say there would be a great falling away prior to his return.

Second, Jesus did say “there it is” when he said that he would found his church on the strength of the truth of a Peter’s confession that he was the Christ, the Son of God...and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. We just have to go back in time, turn away from our increasingly hostile to the gospel culture, and find it.

Third, popularity has nothing to do with it. Narrow is the way and there are few that find it - His words.

Finding the church that didn’t change to accommodate the world is quite possible.

went to a local church last week, they were advertising 'Christmas wonderland' and they had free hot chocolate in disposable coffee cups, and a gold coin donation into a grotto with Santa Claus and dozens of christmas trees all lit up with a huge present mountain. They also had baby Jesus and Mary, amongst all the tinsel and baubles. And a bouncy castle.
They were also selling christmas gifts in the lobby.

yep.

Wow!

Why 'become' anything I wonder? The people are the Church, not a building or a denomination. Of course, most of us know this, we just need to actually live that.

We remember what Jesus did with a place like that, when he emptied out the temple.

a story involving tables, a whip, and some money changers comes to mind.

The church has always had a unknown mixture of those known not the word the gospel of salvation and those who have been born anew from above. Tasted seen and believed as a an anchor to their new soul. Unlike those who fall away.. over and over.

In one sense the ceremony part of gathering together as representation of the unseen glory of God is designed to a “Feel good” mentality. When offered according to his name. It would be like the dew that settled on the ground to represent the work of the Holy Spirit bringing the daily bread as Manna which literally means. What is it? It is that which mankind is not familiar with (used to represent God). It was the color of pearl to represent the gates we enter into fellowship .It tasted like honey .

A good show to help others understand the things not seen as long as side shows as oral tradition of men are not connected.

IMO they seem to have voluntarily capped salaries at $250k.
MacArthur and Begg are in that range. The decent orthodox evangelicals.
The false prophet nutters are looking for max payday.
It matters little. Rev ch6 is right around the corner.

It's not that "they ARE BECOMING worldly", the fact is they HAVE BEEN worldly for centuries!

First, What if you believe that "falling away", and the whole end of the "age" already took place as Jesus said it would, (as I do) then exactly what falling away would I be waiting for? This was my point. I'm not waiting for that, as a matter of fact all I'm waiting for is the next person He puts in front of me to testify to. I'm not waiting, see my point?

Second, isn't that exactly what you'd be waiting for if this whole "pre-trib" (and to be fair I'm assuming this is the view you hold, if not then my comment is directed at those that do) thing happens as planned. The devil grows stronger and stronger until Jesus brings his earthly Kingdom and saves the day, right? The way I see it, in that way it the view goes completely opposite to what He told us the kingdom of God was. The kingdom of God is already here in the midst of all believers, we are not waiting for an earthly kingdom to come, His kingdom is of the spirit and will continue until ALL enemies are under His feet. This goes right into the "third".

Yes it most certainly does, has a LOT to do with it, and if you can't see the spiritual war happening between the "popular" and the truth then I don't even know what to say to that. Really? This whole conversation is evidence of this. You don't at all see the danger of all the, deception, influence, and pull of popular opinion? And honestly you were just restating my point. I believe the TRUTH always stands, it has to by very nature. Do you honestly think I was saying it couldn't? How about you, are you above being deceived, you don't think popular opinion has any effect on you at all? Okay. I believe our King is on His throne now covered in victory, reigning until ALL enemies are made a foot stool for His feet, His never ending kingdom growing with no end, all His redeemed creation singing songs of His glory. I have been reborn into this now, and already sing of His glory with His other children. So I'm just not waiting at all. See my point now? I'm not trying to war with you and you have to understand how much I agree with everything you said here really, even the popularity thing I understand how you mean that and do agree, but I was talking about the still lost, those even sitting in churches that do not know Him. I wasn't talking about those truly in truth, however the most dangerous place we can be is thinking we can't be fooled. We are told to always test ourselves and search scripture to see if these things are so, and the bottom line it is His Spirit that leads us to all truth.

I truly appreciate the conversation, I honestly don't think we are very far of agreement, and hope I never came off rude or arrogant, I do not mean it like that in any way. Have a nice day.

Exactly, one world religion was established in the garden when the spirit of error, the father of lies as the god of this world said ."ye will not surely die"

Having put their trust in what the eyes see the temporal and the lying voice . . the glory of God departed . It will return in the new heavens and earth on the last day . When death, the letter of the law is cast into the judgment of God never to rise and condemn a whole creation.