Will the real Jacob please stand up?

Everyone agrees that ISRAEL = descendants of Jacob.

My question is: How can we know WHO these people are today? After 70AD its been a mess. We dont got no genealogies anymore, we got white folks in israel with RUSSIAN hairyhats saying they're jews. We got ethiopians saying they're jews (beta israel), we got some african american groups saying they are the TRUE descendants of Jacob, we got all types of people claiming things.

One thing many of these got in common is they follow the Torah.. BUT are they of Jacob when it comes to BLOODLINE? I dont know, i really dont and neither does anyone else. Ashkenaz is a gentile name in the Bible so why are they called Ashkenaz Jews?.

One thing we DO KNOW is that in the Bible Paul is thought to be an Egyptian, Moses passes off as an Egyptian, and Abraham is from what we today call TURKEY. These are all arabic/middle-eastern/berber looking folks, not white europeans or asians or any other type of people. Thats the BIBLE's testimony.

Then we can say that OK these people got scattered, they mingled with the local populations a bit and now they look different and are white or asian or black, but if thats the case, NOT SO SURE they could pass as Jews anymore being so mixed over centuries. Why I say that is: If you look at the captivity periods and teh many dislocations of Israel in the Old Testament, you notice that they gotta prove their lineage and they are ALREADY struggling to do so after 70years, IMAGINE what its gonna be like after 2000!


All this to say: Everyone out here claiming to be Jewish these days, I know many zionist Christians who LOVE to brag about being jewish, they did a DNA test, cant speak a word of hebrew, dont know nothing about the Jewish culture or Torah, arent circumcised yet they are boasting about being Jews. CMON BRUH. Why you gotta do us like that?

WHO do you believe out of these candidates are the real Israelites? Do you believe they can come from all of the above mentioned backgrounds (asian white black) and why do you believe that? How can you know? Not starting a debate but rather ASKING with an honest heart. One thing I will say is, the foundation of the state of Israel is a miracle, that its still there so that makes me believe atleast SOME folks out there in Jerusalem are the real deal, but i cant say ALL.

my mom's side of family is jewish but im also not following the torah or circumcised its actually forbidden in finland to do it unless its medical reasons

i believe in the torah it says if u dont circumcise you are cut off from the people. so dont know why they still consider me jewish? anyway i believe its just they look like you are cut off from people but you are still genetically descendent from that man Jacob so you are israelite

i dont think its a problem to see people of different colors being from jacob because if im Jacob now: i take one black wife, one white wife, one asian wife, and all we reproduce will be different colors but still same seed from me so its Jacob seed.

who cares about what anyone is anyway. are they in Christ?

I think some passages from the Bible will sort things out.
The Bloodline is about Jesus alone, "the seed". Those descended from Israel are those who believe.
Those with claim to genealogical heritage are false, they were scattered amongst the hoards like sticks to the wind. Only the believers are the children of promise any more.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through I saac your descendants will be named .” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
Romans 9:6‭-‬8 NASB

Even so Abraham believed G od , and it was reckoned to him as righteousness . Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “A ll the nations will be blessed in you .” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
Galatians 3:6‭-‬9 NASB

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Galatians 3:26‭-‬29 NASB

Yes "Israel" or "Jacob" applied to the descendants of Jacob/Israel, the son of Isaac, and grandson of Abraham.

After the ten tribes were *lost* through the Assyrian invasion, two tribes remained along with the priests and Levites in the kingdom of Judah. After the Babylonian captivity, those from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi returned to Judea in Palestine. But many remained in Babylonia and Persia as well as other parts of those empires, such as Egypt and Syria.

After 70 AD, the majority of Jews were dispersed to all parts of the Roman empire, but some did not leave Judea. So there were always Jews in Palestine, even though the Arabs and Turks had occupied it. Many Jews were dispersed throughout the Middle East at that time, but the Hellenistic Jews would have remained in Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc. since the Babylonian times.

At the same time, the Jews from the Diaspora who went to Europe remained in Europe, and even though they were persecuted, they did not disappear from Europe. They also migrated to Central Asia and Russia, so there were large populations of Jews and Jewish converts (who for all practical purposes as regarded as Jews) in the former Soviet Union.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, those who claim to be Jews and live in Israel must be accepted as Jews. When the nation state of Israel was created in 1948, there were both Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jews in Israel. Some of them would have been able to trace their lineage back to the 12 tribes, while others probably not. In any event God knows exactly who belongs to which tribe, so this should not even be an issue for Christians. The Church has NOT replaced Israel.

The Book of Genesis chapter 49

Sounds like church of God doctrine. Let me guess the UK is one of the people in Gen 49? Look I can just make wild interpretations and make those fit everything. Here I go: Finds rest, does tribute, between two, well DUH its Finland. Finns are between Sweden and Russia and been enslaved by both and did tribute to both. EZ. Im an Israelite

I heard a talk on YouTube on the genetic evidence for Ashkenazi Jews. The theory the man argued for was that members of the Jewish community of Rome migrated north to work in royal courts and other positions in Europe, and communities formed there. The DNA supported the idea of common ancestry on the male side for a common ancestor from the middle east, but for mothers from the local population. He said that according to Jewish tradition, they may not all be considered Jewish since the mother would have had to convert for them to be Jewish by Talmudic law, and there may not have been (the falsely so called ) 'rabbis' up there to convert them.

But I notice in the Old Testament Jewishness seems to follow the male, not the female, line. So these people, or many of them may be 'real Jews' or real Hebrews with white DNA from the mothers the male immigrant founders intermarried with.

Rashi associates Ashkenaz with the Celts, one of the people groups around the Rhine in ancient times. If Ethiopians followed a similar pattern, they could be ethnic Jews, too.

Judaism also accepts converts who get circumcised, so some of the community may converts as well. Unless a several decades back, Ahskenazi Jews tended to intermarry with each other and tended to genetically be the equivalent of fourth cousin or so or closer with each other.

Judah is one of the Twelve tribes consisting of eleven and dtwo half tribes of Joseph.

All are Hebrews, and for nationalty and origin, all should be referred to as such, then sepecifying the Tribe if need be.

The heads of the families were always male in genealogy, however as far as I have been taught, Unless the mother is of Hebrew blood the children are of the lineage of the Hebrews. I have never been taught nor has the idea occurred to me to have the understanding a chel of a non-Hebrew woman is Hebrew, even if the natural father is.

GREAT POST! Love you for that, unbiased and to the point. I noticed that in the Bible it goes thru the male the lineage as well, I find it hilarious that today's antichrist rabbis are doing it exactly the opposite of how the Bible does it. Just like in the days of Jesus: traditions of men trump the word of God! Thats what Jesus was always talking about.

Love and blessings to you and yours presidente

There is the nation of Israel and there is Jacob/Israel that represents all of the elect of God from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9. After God renamed Jacob to be called Israel, Gen 33:28, Most of the times you see Israel referred to in the scriptures it has reference to Jacob/Israel, and not the nation of Israel. Rom 9:6, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

The real Jacob (the deceiver) is the who stole the first born birth rites with a cup of goat stew with the help of his mother from the firstborn. . Esau.

Jacob the deceiver was void of the Spirit of Christ. Which without. . no man belongs to Christ. Jacob like all of natural unconverted mankind wrestled with flesh and blood as he did with his brother. But then the Spirit of the gospel in order to show the power of God wrestled with the flesh of Jacob His hip put out of joint as a reminder... and the Spirit of Christ prevailed as the Champion of Faith (World Wide Wrestling) . The born again experience, the first love of God working in Jacob . In Acts God renamed his bride and today calls her Christian.

Genesis 32:27-29 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Isreal the born again name.

It will work itself out for God will restore the kingdom to the Jews after they have borne their shame for rejecting the truth, and shall bring the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes back to Israel and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He shall never hide His face from them again.

And shall make a full end of all Gentile nations their ruling governments but not make a full end of Israel although they will not be wholly unpunished.

When the man of sin, New Age Christ, establishes peace in the Middle East it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentle nations will cause it to happen, and the Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth.

That means one day all Jews will be back on their land.

England believes the stone of destiny moved to England so the throne of David is set up there, and descendants of David, and gives them the God given right to rule the world, but I do not believe it, although the Jews were scattered in the nations but some Caucasians are thinking they are Jewish.

African Americans believe they are from the tribe of Judah, and Latinos, and Native Americans are also part of Israel, and even have a list of who belongs to what tribe which they are lying, and making it up for even if it were true they would not know, the same as Scientists making things up about evolution telling outlandish things that they know they are making it up, but evolution is religion in the future and they believe they are still evolving so they will exaggerate it to make it seem right.

But if the whole house of Jacob are going to Israel as planned by God and He said He would leave none of them in the nations anymore then how is all of the African Americans, and if from Africa then Africans have to be from Israel too, and all Latinos, and all Native Americans all going to go to Israel for when the house of Jacob goes back to Israel there will not be that many people.

Also England and the Royal family would have to be going to Israel.

This is of God that the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes are going to Israel and He will leave none of them in the nations anymore.

A lot of people like to claim they are Jews, and from Israel and one of the tribes for they know that it would be a special privilege to be such for they believe the Bible and believe God is still working with the Jews, but some people are lying that they are from a tribe of Israel.

I believe it will clear itself up and the true Jews will be back on their land although there might be some impostors with them, but when the Jews go to Israel they will probably sort it out knowing who is a real Jew or not for so many of them will be going to Israel and will then be a big group of true Jews in Israel.

But when the man of sin, New Age Christ, establishes peace in the Middle East, England and the royal family is not going to Israel, and the African Americans, and the Latinos, and Native Americans are not going to Israel.

Which the true Jews would go to Israel for it is planned by God.

I would think that the Jews would have skin like those of the Arab nations in the Middle East, and Abraham is the father of both Isaac and Ishmael.

I think the African Americans that say they are Jews tend to be kind of hateful with a revenge type attitude that God is going to get you for oppressing us instead of showing the love of Jesus.

Some people seem to like to believe they are a certain ethnic identity if they think there is privilege or a blessing there like England and the royal family as descendants of David, and the throne of David in England, and African Americans believing they are true Jews and God will avenge them not only United States but those that went against them in history, which I heard one African American say to an Asian that they will be their slaves one day.

It is like they are desperate to believe they are from a tribe of Israel for they think then it gives them special favor with God and some in a revenge type attitude or believing God will work with the Jews again.

People believe what they want to believe like some people that believe the new age movement interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process.

I wonder if you were exposed quite a bit to modern Talmudic-influenced Judaism, then, because plenty of Christians who read the Bible see the lineage is passed through the male. Lineage through the female is a post-exhilic thing as far as I can see-- Jewish oral tradition, not written Torah. I have a friend who is a Hebrew scholar who argues that Ezra supports this, but some of those who intermarried were priests and could not marry outside of Israel, and some of the women married were from forbidden tribes.

I Kings 11 says this:

11 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:

2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

But where does the Torah forbidd marriage to Egyptians Moabites, and Ammonites (not to be confused with Amorites, which are non-Lot-descendants)?

A Jewish man could take a virgin slave girl captured by defeating a distant nation, not one of the seven forbidden tribes of Canaan, and marry her. Wouldn't their children be considered Hebrews? Couldn't they inherit.

If only children of Israelite women are Israelites, then there are no Israelites unless the patriarches married their full or half sisters, descendants, nieces born of incest, etc.. Ephraim and Manasseh did not have an Israelite mother. They were half-Egyptian. If Tamar were Judah's sister, you'd think the passage might have mentioned that.

Was David not a Hebrew because of Ruth?

Conversion customs are post-exhilic, though Esther seems to refer to it.

Sorry I have not been taught this as the manner of determining a person being an Hebrew… Not from read the Word in Hebrew nor from any other language.

I would suggest there is not law that says they cannot marry . The law is to not go after the gods they serve. Solomon's downfall and the exit of someone sitting in the throne of David to represent the King of kings .

David was a born again believer because of the Spirit of Christ that worked in him to both will and perform the good pleasure of God.

The Midianites, Abrahams lineage like that of Gedeon are derived from the tribe of Manasseh the first born of Josef.

As part of a ceremonial law to show the work of the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that did follow .. . the first resurrection opening the gates. Hair a representation of the unseen glory must be shaved and nails must be pared. .

I find that interesting that he used dead things (hair and nails) to represent life .

Its is used in the new testament it is worked into a ceremonial law as a result of the reformation. Previously under the pagan foundation .( Kings) women were separated from men and Jew from gentiles. . high wall separated . Only Jewish men could participate in the ceremony.

After the reformation. Men and woman can gather together as one and perform the work of two to represent the same unseen glory of God. (1)The commandment....Men do not cover their head as a representative glory. . and women a glory of men. (2) The commandment .. women do cover their representative glory . He did not leave women without her own shadow as sign for the angels .