Not By Works

Here is the dilemma. A promise of eternal life is eternal life to the elect.
But to the lost, the promise is not fulfilled. Is it not fulfilled because of failure of their faith present time,
or what will happen later? And are we called to bring doubt in the elects mind today by introducing doubt
because to the lost it literally does not matter though they will think it applies to them also.

Jesus's promises are to the elect, His sheep, and He defines them well.
I have had believers literally deny Jesus's words on obedience and walking in His ways, and then claim Jesus's
promises apply to them, even though their very rebellion declares they are not His sheep.

But only the elect understand this. Which is ironic on a forum for unbelievers and believers. But then Jesus
faced the same issue, but it is a little mind bending, God bless you

I won't defend anything that does not ring true.... even if I said it....🤣

Here is the dilemma. A promise of eternal life is eternal life to the elect.
But to the lost, the promise is not fulfilled. Is it not fulfilled because of failure of their faith present time,
or what will happen later? And are we called to bring doubt in the elects mind today by introducing doubt
because to the lost it literally does not matter though they will think it applies to them also.

Jesus's promises are to the elect, His sheep, and He defines them well.
I have had believers literally deny Jesus's words on obedience and walking in His ways, and then claim Jesus's
promises apply to them, even though their very rebellion declares they are not His sheep.

But only the elect understand this. Which is ironic on a forum for unbelievers and believers. But then Jesus
faced the same issue, but it is a little mind bending, God bless you

If you believe in the elect, chosen of God before the beginning of time and written in the Lambs book of life then is that not OSAS?

After all if chosen by God from the beginning of time and in the book then you cannot be written out.

As for Judas he obviously was not one of the elect therefore never saved to begin with.

If you believe in the elect, chosen of God before the beginning of time and written in the Lambs book of life then is that not OSAS?

Afterall if chosen by God from the beginning of time and in the book then you cannot be written out.

As for Judas he obviously was not one of the elect therefore never saved to begin with.

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22:19 KJV)

So it is not the fact that God declares the person justified but rather your measuring stick of acceptable behavior that determines who are the elect.

You cannot tolerate the failures so therefore you have redefined the means of salvation which is grace to behaviour.

This is a good point in one sense. Today people are very quick on summaries not seeing how deep the
principles go and their deeper implications.

Easy believism - say a phrase or repeat a few sentences, have a particular expression and you are eternally, irrevocably saved.
Now slap onto this OSAS, and say security, being part of the group is everything no matter what else takes place.

Some argue this and say this is the gospel, no fruit, no reality, nothing to indicate anything has happened, that is what salvation is, at its basic form, just an acceptance of Jesus.

Now to say rather the elect will be mature in Christ and appear like Him on the last day, pure, holy, righteous, a people purchased by His blood and worthy of His name, destined for their inheritance, showing the full fruit of the Spirit, is quite something else.

So how do I distinguish between the two? Listen to Paul and his ambition for the believers he was ministering to

Phil 2:14-16
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

Can you not hear Pauls ambition for these people, "without fault"?
Now I am speaking to the elect, to encourage you. God bless you

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22:19 KJV)

@PS I am not feeling the love at this moment with all those red X's

See you stated that to me once ...big mistake I have an excellent memory

This is a good point in one sense. Today people are very quick on summaries not seeing how deep the
principles go and their deeper implications.

Easy believism - say a phrase or repeat a few sentences, have a particular expression and you are eternally, irrevocably saved.
Now slap onto this OSAS, and say security, being part of the group is everything no matter what else takes place.

Some argue this and say this is the gospel, no fruit, no reality, nothing to indicate anything has happened, that is what salvation is, at its basic form, just an acceptance of Jesus.

Now to say rather the elect will be mature in Christ and appear like Him on the last day, pure, holy, righteous, a people purchased by His blood and worthy of His name, destined for their inheritance, showing the full fruit of the Spirit, is quite something else.

So how do I distinguish between the two? Listen to Paul and his ambition for the believers he was ministering to

Phil 2:14-16
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

Can you not hear Pauls ambition for these people, "without fault"?
Now I am speaking to the elect, to encourage you. God bless you

Matthew 10:26
"So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.

Love you sister , the daggers fly , but GOD is our Almighty shield...xox...

Why are you responding to my post with the above.

I was responding to @JohnW34 who seems to believe that the elect are saved from the beginning of time and were written in the lambs book of life.

It seems that you did not read or ignored my first sentence question to him but embolded in red my second sentence to post what you did above.

Maybe read all posts by members before responding.

On a side note can you explain why you posted the above in relation to my response to JohnW34 and if you have an issue with what he said respond to him like you have me.

Matthew 10:26
"So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.

Love you sister , the daggers fly , but GOD is our Almighty shield...xox...

Revelation 22:19 answers the first line of your post. In fact, it answers the whole OSAS debate.

I understand your argument here.
The church has a history of false rejection of people for cultural reasons and not spiritual ones, and a real lack of love.

My concern is not with rejection by with the elect who are Gods chosen.
You appear to want others acceptable than the elect who are capable of walking in Christs ways.
God declares few are chosen, many are rejected. This has never been my way or desire, but to find Gods heart
and His ways and will.

Your missing the whole discussion
the discussion is are those who have been truly SAVED because if their true living faith in Christ having been adopted into Gods family saved eternally
or after being born again. Can they lose their sons JP and end up in hell?

it’s not do I think a person is saved or not. Only God knows

it’s not is a licentious person saved, I think we all agree. Their faith was dead hence they have never been saved hence they are still lost

Revelation 22:19 answers the first line of your post. In fact, it answers the whole OSAS debate.

I believe all names are in the book, those whos names "have not been found" written in the book are those whos names have been blotted out.....


Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Who is he that overcomes?

1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

________

Exodus 32:33

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”

________
Revelation 20:15
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.






All names are in, those who are blotted out will no longer be found in the book. Whatsoever is born of God is promised to not be blotted out. (us saved believers)


Others will not have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and will be blotted out due to the righteousness of God bringing justice to sin.

Revelation 22:19 answers the first line of your post. In fact, it answers the whole OSAS debate.

You have to be a believer for your name to be written in the Lambs Book of Life, but as Rev 22:19 says, "God will take away from them their share of the fruit of the tree of life and of the Holy City, which are described in this book." (GNB)