Perpetual Adolescense and "Youth Ministry"

preacher4truth · Jan 15, 2020

For those of you who actually attend church, you may want to listen to this podcast about adolescence and the failures of youth ministries &c.

I’ve never been a fan of youth ministry after understanding the Gospel. I don't see any office of this in Scripture, and I am Sola Scriptura.

The typical youth minister is some young guy that everyone likes or thinks is "cool and can relate to kids” and so families “turn their kid(s) over to them.”

My take is biblical in that Dads should raise up their children in the instruction and discipline of the LORD, Ephesians 6:4. Note also 1 Cor. 16:13. It isn’t the job of a youth minister or the wife, it is the job of men to lead their families. Manliness biblically us being the spiritual leader yet many have, and unbiblicaly so, relegated this to their wives.

Churches without big youth ministries, or, without youth ministries altogether retain their youth into their 20’s at a higher rate than those who do have them.

Please take time and listen for more here:

https://www.whitehorseinn.org/show/perpetual-adolescence/

Laish · Jan 16, 2020

preacher4truth said:

I couldn’t get the it to play . I did find a podcast from White horse on the subject.
It’s quite interesting. I wouldn’t place the blame totally on youth ministry though. My opinion and after listening to a hour or so and looking up the stats , I place the blame on mom and dad. If kids growing up don’t see a praying Bible reading mom and dad they are more likely to walk away. Another thing and this one was big , the children that grew up to stay in faith were given firm explanations for their Christian Faith. They were taught from the ground up biblical doctrine not just happy clappy feel good stuff . They were taught nuts and bolts theology at home .
Still this subject needs more discussion and attention by all that call themselves Christian
Blessings
Bill

preacher4truth · Jan 16, 2020

@Laish thanks for pointing out the link didn't work.

As to the topic at hand I blame parents, churches and the "youth ministry" which hasn't been around too long. Families now come to church expecting to find this as if it is needed. Frankly it's unnecessary and lacks biblical evidence or support. Bottom line it isn't working because it isn't Gods plan or design.

My conviction is FIW works and matures our children and families which is in addition to family worship. Youth don't need a youth pastor to go to, they need their family and elders if necessary.

Here is a fresh link for everyone:

https://christianpodcastcentral.com/white-horse-inn-perpetual-adolescence/

Laish · Jan 16, 2020

preacher4truth said:

Yea I see where ya coming from now . I heard a different podcast on a similar subject but this one is focused on the lack of maturity . Raising mature children in today’s world is a huge hurdle. I do agree that dumbing down a ministry to get kids to listen is not the way . It is actually insulting if you think about it. It’s basically saying ok Johnny and Sally I know your not smart enough to understand what I do so I fixed it so you can understand. So as it exists to day children’s ministry dose need to go away. It’s going won’t fix things but it won’t stand in the way of getting our children to start becoming adults . They said it in the pod cast (paraphrase here) if you want to become a painter hang out with painters ,if you want to be a adult hang out with adults.
There is a considerable amount to think about. Thanks brother.
Blessings
Bill

preacher4truth · Jan 16, 2020

@Laish yes I agree it is insulting. Sorry, I cannot quote on tablet without it slowing down my typing so bad it takes minutes to type a short sentence. If I respond without quoting it is normal speed.

I've heard many pastors say they needed to dumb down passages so their congregation could get it. That always bothered me; if their congregations needed it dumbed down, who was at fault? At the same time did the pastor himself get it, or, was this an excuse for shallow preaching and understanding?

Families need to teach their children Scripture and doctrine, pay a price in time, prayer, and study while not depending on a church having a special separate ministry for their children and do it for them. Church has become like Burger King, a consumer mentality, drive up and place your order.

I appreciate you brother. Hope all is well with you and your family.

Lanolin · Jan 17, 2020

Just point out that some children actually dont have dads i.e widowed or divorced so not sure where they meant to go for spiritual instruction. Are they meant to miss out then?

Not everyone has intact family or parents who are both christian.

Laish · Jan 17, 2020

Lanolin said:

Of course not concerning death of a husband or the sad fact of divorce or that of a single mother.
This is when the Church needs to step up . That’s not really the point of the conversation. What is the point is we should use a biblical approach to all situations concerning how we are to raise a child in Christ.
We can always come up with what if situations as to how not to take blame for our shortcomings.
We need to focus on the biblical model of how a family is to be shepherd . Learn from our mistakes take our problems to The LORD in prayer and ask the Church for help if needed.
Blessings
Bill

Lanolin · Jan 17, 2020

Laish said:

Of course not concerning death of a husband or the sad fact of divorce or that of a single mother.
This is when the Church needs to step up . That’s not really the point of the conversation. What is the point is we should use a biblical approach to all situations concerning how we are to raise a child in Christ.
We can always come up with what if situations as to how not to take blame for our shortcomings.
We need to focus on the biblical model of how a family is to be shepherd . Learn from our mistakes take our problems to The LORD in prayer and ask the Church for help if needed.
Blessings
Bill

its not my shortcoming or anyone elses its just a reality of many peoples situations.

Laish · Jan 17, 2020

Lanolin said:

How is that ? Aside from the death of a spouse?
Blessings
Bill

preacher4truth · Jan 17, 2020

@Lanolin

They have their spiritual parent(s) to go to, they aren't missing out on anything if they don't have a youth director.

It appears Timothy had an unbelieving father, so his mother and grandmother lead him spiritually, note Acts 16; 2 Timothy 1:1-5 . There were no instructions to make an office of youth director.

This is what I'm getting at, people are conditioned to believe they need to have youth directors, children's ministries most likely unintentionally. They think they have to have these things, and they don't.

Too many families don't even read Scripture, instruct, discipline or pray together. They expect the church to do this for them.

God designed the family to lead the children and worship together. The church has made people expect the church to provide this for them and think their children need to be entertained by and hang out with those who "can relate to them" yet many families spend very little time with their own children.

By the way, have you listened to the podcast? You really need to so you can understand and hear the troubling and enlightening facts presented.

Unfortunately on top of all this many youth directors are mere comedians, buffoons, juvenile, glorified baby sitters. At one church we attended a young man asked for prayer about becoming the youth director, then right after this told us all in SS he struggles with porn.

I see this office nowhere in Scripture. We would never turn our children over to these as some spiritual leader, we are doing that ourselves, it's our duty and calling. There are other troubles that come from trusting children to these "leaders" and that's another subject.

Lanolin · Jan 17, 2020

preacher4truth said:

you mean they ought to go to elders or their grandparents?
that youth ministers are too young?
I think I agree some youth ministers are too young, but it seems the elders delegate this task because they just dont have the energy, in some churches. Not all churches are like this.

Timothy himself was young and Paul instructed him to not let him youth put him off being a minsiter, but also to flee youthful lusts.

Its also can be a problem not just in church but schools where the teachers are not much older than the students. But again, not everyone can be homeschooled.

you assume everyone has spiritual parents that they can go to, but that is simply not the case. I think some of your reasoning is flawed because churches are supposed to reach out not just to their own.

preacher4truth · Jan 17, 2020

@Lanolin

No, sorry. If you take time to read what I stated it was made quite clear I dont assume the things you assert. Apparently you missed what was stated by reading things into what you respond to. We are speaking of families, broken or otherwise who attend church. In the OP I made this clear.

You need to listen to the podcast provided you as well so you can understand the exact story and issue here.

Dino246 · Jan 17, 2020

I listened to the podcast. I also volunteer in ministry to youth.

The guest speaker made some valid points, including that youth culture is a relatively recent phenomenon, and that the church should not stoop to the level of popular culture. I believe his presentation is flawed though, because he says what parents should be doing (valid) without recognizing the reality that most parents are themselves incapable of doing so. Unless they are raised in the church and are strong Christians themselves, many church-going parents are not equipped theologically to teach their children. Sadly, many parents can barely keep a household functioning, let alone instruct their children in the things they will need to know. Ask the next parents you encounter whether they have a conscious plan for teaching their children the things of life and faith (their ability to follow through is a secondary point here). I'll bet you don't find more than a handful among thousands.

I know some Christian parents who do a great job of teaching their children. Their kids may still walk away from the Church. There are no guarantees.

I propose that the solution is not to criticize youth ministry, but to get a whole lot better at teaching Christian parents (adults) to be discipling disciples, and to offer them the tools to prepare their children to be genuine, functional Christians as well as functional adults.

As long as there are such dysfunctional families, there will be a need for youth ministry. By all means, save some.

oldethennew · Jan 17, 2020

another 'two-edged sword'...

Lanolin · Jan 17, 2020

oh ok not it actually wasnt clear sorry, I dont usually listen or click on links if they lead to other sites, why because you might click on a link and it takes half an hour or more to listen or it doesnt work etc.

I mean not everyone has spiritual GRANDPARENTS either.

Just pointing that out.

Lanolin · Jan 17, 2020

also in your OP you kinda assumed everyone reading it would be male.

PennEd · Jan 17, 2020

preacher4truth said:

I somewhat agree with this, and in a perfect Christian world you are right. But I think it's dependent on the Church.

My sons attended"Solomon's Porch" youth groups and it really did help them in their Christian maturity and walk. They went on several missions trips, and did some great service work, while experiencing just how incredibly blessed they are here.

We also had Bible studies and teaching in our home as well.
It was also a great, safe place they could go in their teens that kept them out of trouble, and yet they had fun with other youth.
It paid BIG dividends later for instance, when my younger son went on a secular High School graduation trip to the shore, and all (9) but 2 of them were drinking and other bad behavior.

Him, and the other "Solomon's Porch" H.S. graduate that didn't engage in the drinking said they were uncomfortable and threatened to leave the house. Amazingly, their actions were like REVERSE peer pressure, and the guys promised to stop for the rest of the week.

So I think it's too simplistic to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is definitely a place for youth ministry, but it has to be done right. And that is up to the parents to check.

mar09 · Jan 17, 2020

After reading thru the OP and the posts, I thought of starting a new one based on 1 Cor 13.11. At the same time, I thought this thread has to do also w/ our thinking, speaking and seeing things as a child (instead of an adult). If you think I should transfer this to a new one, pls say so. But I wanted to ask how we here actually see ourselves as doing so as a child, and how others have given up their 'childish ways,' or being childish, instead of acting mature as the adult Paul was now referring to.

The verse: 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, argued like a child; now that I have become a man, I have finished with childish ways. (CJB)

Btw, am still listening to the vid again=).

Laish · Jan 17, 2020

Lanolin said:

You have a point . It can come off as aimed directly at men . To me it points out the failure of many men but it’s something that the whole Body of Christ needs to address.

Not just the husband but the men of the Church itself. We men have a responsibility to help all in the body of Christ. No it’s not some guy walking in and taking over . It’s more like a married couple with the husband with his wife inviting those in need of help over to do things like Bible study and helping where they can .
We in the Church are a family we are called brothers and sisters in Christ. We should start acting like it .
It’s a long and tough subject but it is clear more often than not men have neglected their personal role and entrusted others what they should do .
Not say women don’t have a role either. Scripture points out the need of women within the Body of Christ.( too numerous to list here )
I just believe men have to bare the brunt of most of the failures pointed out in the op .
Blessings
Bill

presidente · Jan 18, 2020

preacher4truth said:

I think one of the reasons some parents like youth ministries is that it gives young people a chance to know each other. The Proverbs talk about the value of having friends. There were three companions who stood together against the idolatry Nebucadnezzer forced on the people. So there are benefits to young men and young women finding friends in their peer group. But to turn the kids over to children's activities all the time and cut them off from adult spiritual influence does not seem helpful.

Perpetual Adolescense and "Youth Ministry"

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