Was the person who falls away drawn to Jesus by the Father?

In the Parable of the Sower, if the 2nd type of soil person was never really saved to begin with were they drawn to Christ on their own, or were they drawn by the Father?

"13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them" - John 6:44

ALL are drawn, FOR JESUS said if I be lifted up from the earth, will drew all man unto to me,
HOW would you say GOD will be JUST, IF he just drew just part of us, NO'' HE DREWS ALL< AND IT'S HIS WILL TO SAVE ALL
GOD bless as HE sees fit

Many believe based on sight, not faith. Only the born again (good soil) have Holy Spirit caused faith.

Somebody said this in another thread:
And I agree with it.
The natural person has zero interest in the gospel until the Holy Spirit starts convicting them even if in only the slightest of ways. In fact, the very opposite is true. Conviction is what makes the difference. That conviction is the Father's drawing.


I'm kind of shocked that you leave no room for the believer to struggle with sin in a type 3 kind of heart condition. I've spent most of my 34 years as a genuinely saved Christian there. I don't know you, but I bet you have too. I just don't know of any Christians that were born already matured in a type 4 kind of relationship with Christ. But if you're one of them then I'll gladly mark you down as the only one that I know.

Usually those who aren’t seeking will never find. If you think you have the right answers, all that contradict are wrong. Many religious people think that salvation is in the doctrine. The doctrine is supposed to lead us to the life, but the doctrine is not the life.

All four grounds are god's elect people, and will never be deprived from being in heaven and will be gathered up at the last day. All of us do sin and fall away from our fellowship with God, at times, but it is temporary, until we repent.

If it is God's pleasure to save all mankind, then, all mankind will be saved, which both of us know that not to be true. Isaiah 46:10, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Wrong, all the people on all four soils have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They do fall away and commit sins, as all of us do, at times, and when we do, we temporary lose our fellowship with God, until we repent.

I cannot find the wording in Titus 3:11 the same as the KJV words it. "offers salvation to all people". is not in it.

you are right. Knowing the doctrine leads us to that abundant life that we can live here on earth, but knowing the doctrine is part of that abundant life, Matt 7:14.

We don't know if soil #1 will be among the elect until it is among the elect.
Surely, soil #1 can eventually some day respond to the word of God in faith and be chosen.
Only God in his foreknowledge knows if it will ever do that.

Reformed doctrine says the person who falls away was never saved to begin with.
Jesus says soil #2 believed, but fell away when the condition of his heart gave no place for the word of God to remain and thrive in the heat of the day. So then, was the soil #2 believer, this fallen believer, drawn to their belief in Christ by the Father or by self?

We don't see this elsewhere in scripture. Jesus shunned those who believed by sight (the flesh) after seeing the miracles. Faith is a fruit of having the Holy Spirit.

You're right.
I meant Titus 2:11, lol.

Here it is literally translated:

"11For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men" - Titus 2:11

Sometimes people forget the context of the verses and sometimes people add in context that is not there.

I take issue with that:

"11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. " - John 14:11

The miracles were intended to testify to the Jews and bring them to faith in the gospel:

"This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit" - Hebrews 2:3-4

It was the rejection by the Pharisees of the testimony of Jesus' miracles that made them guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did not shun Thomas. In fact, He invited closer inspection.

Isaiah 1:18

Good one!

Many people are drawn but some people resist the moving of the Holy Spirit and do not persist in Faith but fall away into disbelief.. Yes God draws people and everyone who comes to Jesus is drawn by God.. But that does not mean that there are those who are drawn but resit the moving of the Holy Spirit..

The apostle Stephen said before he was stoned to death..

Acts 7: KJV
51 "¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. {52} Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:"

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

If a person confesses that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and Lord and Savior, and the Son of God, then God would be working in their life.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

But many are called but few are chosen which when God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth, and if they get to the door of truth they have to decide to go through it for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life when He called them.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And to walk through the door of truth is to understand the truth of repenting of their sins, and to allow the Spirit to lead them which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit and not the flesh.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But some people do not allow the Spirit to lead them and believe they have salvation despite holding unto sin, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth which the Bible says turn away from such.

They have been called but not chosen for many are called but few are chosen for only a few allow the Spirit to lead them and the rest enjoy sin and do it on a regular basis and believe they still have salvation.

They say we cannot abstain from sin, and sin daily, and sin does not affect our relationship with God even though the Bible says if a person is led of the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

The truth is they do not hate sin like they should which Paul said love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and love is the fulfilling of the law which love does not think an evil thought, and rejoices in the truth and not in iniquity.

Millions of people thinking they are alright but they are not.

God commands all people to repent, and wants all people to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved, but they say nay that is not true but God chose certain amount of people to be saved, and chose the rest not to be saved without their choice.

But God's kingdom is true love not robotic love where they do not have a choice, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice.