Has the second coming occurred already?

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Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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#1
Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?
 
Whispered

Whispered

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#2
I've happened on sites that state that the GT described in the book of Matthew chapter 24 is Jesus speaking of the Tribulation described there as a past event. Which is why he is answering the Disciples questions about the event.
I said in a different thread that I'm starting to think that the Bible is arranged to support an either or understanding of most any Apologetics topic. And in this age with how things are now, immorality given license, etc... I can see how some would think we're in the Tribulation period. God doesn't count time as we do, therefore seven years could be counted as He counts time.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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Whispered said:
I've happened on sites that state that the GT described in the book of Matthew chapter 24 is Jesus speaking of the Tribulation described there as a past event. Which is why he is answering the Disciples questions about the event.
I said in a different thread that I'm starting to think that the Bible is arranged to support an either or understanding of most any Apologetics topic. And in this age with how things are now, immorality given license, etc... I can see how some would think we're in the Tribulation period. God doesn't count time as we do, therefore seven years could be counted as He counts time.
Click to expand...
I noticed some apologists use this as Jesus words were true that some would not see death until His second coming. The 40 prothetic terminology. I can see how that is applicable, but there other things that aren’t included such as; worldly events, the entire world would see His second coming, the millennial kingdom, and varies other aspects of Revelation. I’m not sold on replacement theology.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

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Isn't this the sort of thing that Paul was warning the church in Thessaloniki about? At the beginning of 2 Thessalonians 2.
It seems as if these kinds of rumours were going around even in the lifetime of the apostles.

I would also bear in mind how Jesus warned us of many false messiahs and false teachings.
He said the Gospel would be preached in all nations, before the end. They still had a long way to go in 70AD

He warned
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
(Math 24 ESV)

When he comes there won't be any doubt. The whole world will witness it.

I think Preterists have that absurd notion that we are currently in the millennial reign.
1000 years of peace despite 2 world wars, The Armenian genocide, Bubonic plague, Islamic terrorism, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc etc.
 
ProphetExcalibur

ProphetExcalibur

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#5
Aerials1978 said:
Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Yes! It has already happened!!

But here's the biggest problem. Everyone alive today has been brainwashed with a future interpretation and this has been etched on the mind of their souls! Written in their worship songs and theologies!

Not much can be done for them; Satan has done his job well, now he can just lean back against the wall, dawn his Jesus mask and let them do the dirty work for him!!

It's become so thick and deep within the whole wall of Christendom, people fear even speaking of it for fear of losing fellowship and or their lives!

It's built into people to defend their religious beliefs to the death, as it should be! So unless God does something to cause you to lay down what you've been taught, and fight to know the truth. Your already defeated!

The funny thing is, you should know this is exactly how God does His business!!! And by you I mean anyone listening, whom God has truly delt with.

So if a lowly prophet of Christ Jesus is heard shouting from the watchtower: the enemy is in your camp; he's not coming he's already there, kill him offer him no quarter, or he will kill you in your sleep! Would you even hear him??
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#6
Aerials1978 said:
Is Preterism correct?
Click to expand...
Preterism is DELUSIONAL FANTASY.

If the Second Coming of Christ had occurred in the 1st century, we would already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth with universal peace and righteousness.
 
ProphetExcalibur

ProphetExcalibur

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#7
Nehemiah6 said:
Preterism is DELUSIONAL FANTASY.

If the Second Coming of Christ had occurred in the 1st century, we would already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth with universal peace and righteousness.
Click to expand...
Wow that's funny 😆! Paul said, Jesus was that new creation ie new heaven and Earth! The old heaven and Earth in Adam has passed away behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus!
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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#8
Yes the "second coming" came and went, the great tribulation was the war on Jerusalem in 66-70 AD at the end of the age just as Jesus said it would. The futurist theologies have denied the time statements in many places in the new testament.

(Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.)

The futurist looking theologies have Jesus tarrying for nearly 2000 years.

Paul stated their deliverance was near and that the night was almost over and the day was at hand when he wrote:

(Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.)

(Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.)

That the days of the seals of John's revelations were in the lifetime of those that heard Jesus speak is established by the "fall on us" motif used by Jesus when speaking to the weeping women and repeated by John.

Jesus tells the women that they would live to see the events John described.

(Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.)
.
(Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.)

John repeats the motif here:

(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood)

(Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb)

The millennium lasted 40 years in the first century and ended with the full destruction of the whore of Babylon/Apostate Israel.
 
O

oldethennew

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#10
p.e.
you should have already have been 'banned' for your idiocy' - it goes against this forums creed & stance...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#12
#12
Why no?

because the Bible states certain things will accompany Christ at his return, and stay on earth.

Just like prophecy said things would accompany his first comming (healing, Raise people from the dead. Lamb will walk. Mute will talk) which happened literally. Things which accompany his second should also be seen as will happen literally.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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Dec 10, 2019
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#13
Nehemiah6 said:
Preterism is DELUSIONAL FANTASY.

If the Second Coming of Christ had occurred in the 1st century, we would already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth with universal peace and righteousness.
Click to expand...
I have a difficult time accepting this as well. Not only that, but wouldn’t there have been overwhelming evidence of such an event? God’s return.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#14
#14
Aerials1978 said:
I have a difficult time accepting this as well. Not only that, but wouldn’t there have been overwhelming evidence of such an event? God’s return.
Click to expand...
If I remember right, Scripture says when he returns, so many dead will lay on the ground the birds will feast for over a year.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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Dec 10, 2019
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#15
ProphetExcalibur said:
Yes! It has already happened!!

But here's the biggest problem. Everyone alive today has been brainwashed with a future interpretation and this has been etched on the mind of their souls! Written in their worship songs and theologies!

Not much can be done for them; Satan has done his job well, now he can just lean back against the wall, dawn his Jesus mask and let them do the dirty work for him!!

It's become so thick and deep within the whole wall of Christendom, people fear even speaking of it for fear of losing fellowship and or their lives!

It's built into people to defend their religious beliefs to the death, as it should be! So unless God does something to cause you to lay down what you've been taught, and fight to know the truth. Your already defeated!

The funny thing is, you should know this is exactly how God does His business!!! And by you I mean anyone listening, whom God has truly delt with.

So if a lowly prophet of Christ Jesus is heard shouting from the watchtower: the enemy is in your camp; he's not coming he's already there, kill him offer him no quarter, or he will kill you in your sleep! Would you even hear him??
Click to expand...
My question would be, where is the evidence of this? It’s seems not long after the Church was founded, problems arose. Almost 2000 years later we have many different Churches(denominations) that have perverted and strayed from Christ’s teachings. Could it be that the Olivet Discourse was foreshadowing of a future event? When will the new heaven and new earth come? What about the 3rd temple? Restoration of Israel? Millennial Kingdom?
 
ProphetExcalibur

ProphetExcalibur

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Oct 12, 2012
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#17
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Isn't this the sort of thing that Paul was warning the church in Thessaloniki about? At the beginning of 2 Thessalonians 2.
It seems as if these kinds of rumours were going around even in the lifetime of the apostles.

I would also bear in mind how Jesus warned us of many false messiahs and false teachings.
He said the Gospel would be preached in all nations, before the end. They still had a long way to go in 70AD

He warned
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
(Math 24 ESV)

When he comes there won't be any doubt. The whole world will witness it.

I think Preterists have that absurd notion that we are currently in the millennial reign.
1000 years of peace despite 2 world wars, The Armenian genocide, Bubonic plague, Islamic terrorism, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc etc.
Click to expand...
Paul said this in the 50s ad; before 70ad! I personally don't believe we are in the millennial reign. The whole world in Adam did witness it! It never had anything to do with the 21st century!

It's nice to know what others think!
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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#18
The new heavens and earth were established when the old passed away. But what needs to be understood is what the heavens and earth were and are - they are not the physical creation of heaven and earth.

God established the Jewish "heavens" and "earth" when he gave the Law to Moses and the people of Israel:

(Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.)

The above in not speaking of the Genesis event, yet we are told by Isaiah He created/planted the "heavens" and "earth" at the giving of his words/law.

Isaiah also tells us when the "new heavens" and "earth" were to be created - when he slew the apostate nation of Israel:

(Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.)

(Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name)

(Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.)

Apostate Israel was slain for killing the prophets in the war of 66-70AD just as Jesus said:

(Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.)

When they were slain in the 1st century AD the new "heavens" and "earth" with the Law of Christ were created, the Law of Moses and the old "heaven" and "earth" passed away. His servants have another name - Christian.
 
O

oldethennew

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#19
do you even understand what you are saying or question it???
some deep digging needs to be going-on here for sure...
 
J

John146

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#20
ProphetExcalibur said:
Wow that's funny 😆! Paul said, Jesus was that new creation ie new heaven and Earth! The old heaven and Earth in Adam has passed away behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus!
Click to expand...
Seems like you are spiritualizing Scripture instead of taking it literally. 2 Corinthians 5 is a reference to the believer who has been placed in Christ. Christ has not literally returned to earth to set up His kingdom in Jerusalem and place the government upon His shoulders.
 
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