The Millennium is a Pharisee Doctrine

honestly this is a very close minded stance, I wouldn't phrase it like that, but yes I learn what opposing views actually believe so I'm not just attacking straw men when speaking with them trying to proclaim the truth. You know what? I'm even crazy enough to think that I might even learn something when seeing things from more than just my perspective, and even if not I owe them the respect of addressing their misunderstandings in truth directly, again not attacking things they don't even believe, or things I was told "that group" holds to. To approach it this way is how you keep yourself ignorant and blind. (this is not calling you "ignorant and/or blind", just to make sure that is very clear, I'm saying to cut yourself off from anything outside what you know or accept, is the way to do this)

I'm not sure if you're addressing me, but well-known dispensationalists take a very antagonistic approach toward those who hold different views.

A number of these are listed in Sam Waldron's book "End Times Made Simple".

Amongst their claims are that non-dispensationalists are anti-Semitic. Some don't even believe they are Christians. And, they have a definite air of superiority about them, although I think it's utterly unwarranted.

Here's an example, where the speaker recounts suggesting to Jewish people that other Christians hate them, which is a blatant lie since all Christians other than some weird, brain damaged Christian Identity people know their Savior is Jewish. And slander like this is very typical.

These remarks were made at a Chosen People seminar.

To approach it this way is how you keep yourself ignorant and blind.

Not at all. When people begin to twist Scriptures to accommodate their man-made doctrines, we should not waste our time on such nonsense.

What did Jesus say about false doctrines? Leave them alone.

But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. (Mt 15:13,14)

I think He also told us to be as wise as serpents, and Paul says he was all things to all men for the sake of the gospel. We are just going to have to disagree here about this, I believe I can much better witness to the Muslim if I know what the Quran says and know why it's false by what it says. They believe the Quran not the Bible, so it's effective to be able to show them with their own book that their prophet is false and doesn't know the true God. In the same way I would approach the Mormon or the "J" Witness, I'm not sure how anyone can see educating themselves for the more effective proclamation of the gospel as a bad thing (a bit tongue in cheek here, no offence intended), and learning what a person actually believes make you much better equipped to engage them in a much more effective way. At least in my experience.
All that aside, I see this situation is much worse, because you are in essence proclaiming you have everything figured out in this area of understanding His word to a degree you wouldn't even hear opposing views? In my opinion, take it or leave it, that is a dangerous, and even a bit of an arrogant, position to take, again in my opinion.
I do understand what you mean here though, and when it comes to truth there is no compromise, I believe we can agree on that, but this notion that you wouldn't even hear an, at least professing, brother or sisters case out for something, if not to maybe learn something or get a new perspective, at least to see if you do hear anything that contradicts His word as a watcher on the wall to point it out to them. Right? Does my perspective at least make sense to you?

I agree.

I think a lot of this relates to anti-intellectualism of the 1800's during the "revivalism" movement, which focused more on emotions and sensation than solid biblical truths. Additionally, fear was injected when "higher criticism" within the Church caused a bunch of liberal doctrine to be taught.

I have heard various individuals claim over time that Christians shouldn't even use the word "apologetics", "theology", etcetera, and should not try to learn the beliefs of other faiths in order to promote apologetic efforts. Some say that Christians should not confront the believers of other religions, either.

You don't see those attitudes typically in the Reformed Baptist or Presbyterian camp, and that's largely why I favor them. As an ex-cultist, I viewed Christians as being dupes that thrived on sensationalism. This is before I read RC Sproul's book "Faith Alone". Before that, though, a Baptist coworker invited me to his home to discuss the Bible with him. He started off by asking questions about my belief system first, though. He planted some thoughts in my mind through the dialogue that we had, and those germinated and bore fruit a few years later.

Luckily he wasn't a part of a group that scoffs at apologetics and theology.

would recommend the book, A Case for Amillennialism, by Kim Riddlebarger, for a good understanding on this topic.

Dispensationalists are not even aware that there are other options, for the most part.

Here's what you must believe as a dispensationalist:

You must necessarily believe that physical death will continue to exist beyond the time of Christ’s second coming

You must necessarily believe that the natural creation will continue, beyond the time of Christ’s second coming, to be subjected to the curse imposed by the fall of man.

You must necessarily believe that the New Heavens and New Earth will not be introduced until 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

You must necessarily believe that unbelieving men and women will still have the opportunity to come to saving faith in Christ for at least 1,000 years subsequent to his return.

You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally resurrected until at least 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally judged and cast into eternal punishment until at least 1,000 years subsequent to the return of Christ.

Here's an article which addresses the problems with each of these claims, by an ex-dispensationalist, Sam Storms.

By the way, the problem is not only with dispensationalists, it is a problem with historical premillennialism.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...u-must-believe-if-you-are-a-premillennialist/

would recommend the book, A Case for Amillennialism, by Kim Riddlebarger, for a good understanding on this topic.

I have a better book to recommend, it's called the Word of God. And the answers to every Biblical question can all be found in there. The problem is that, the ammils and preterists, etc., ignore the plain literal meaning of God's word and opt for an allegorized or symbolized interpretation. For example, Revelation 20 uses the words "a thousand years" six times:



Your advice "for a good understanding on this topic" is one of the main problems, i.e. the false teachings of men. The fact that you are suggesting this book over the word of God speaks volumes.

* And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

* And he cast him into the Abyss, and shut and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed.

* And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

* Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The event above where Satan is cast into the Abyss and the great tribulation saints rule with the Lord for a thousand years, takes place after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, which is described in Revelation 19. To not believe this, is to simply ignore the plain literal meaning of God's word.

One of their go-to scriptures to support their interpretation is found in Psalms 50:10

"for every beast of the forest is Mine—the cattle on a thousand hills."

In the verse above, God owning cattle on a thousand hills, is a figurative way of God saying, "I own all of the cattle and all the hills." And so, they take the meaning of the thousand hills here and erroneously apply the same meaning to the thousand years in Revelation, the meaning of which has nothing to do with the meaning in Psalms 50:10. It is the context that should always be considered for interpreting the meaning. And there is nothing in the context of Revelation 20 that would suggest to apply anything but what is plainly being said, which is referring to a literal thousand years.

When you have you ever seen prey and predator animals lie down together and their young?

When have you ever seen the lion eat straw like the Ox?

When has a young child ever been able to play near a Cobra's den and not be harmed" Or placed his hand in a vipers nest and not be harmed?

When has a man who dies at a 100 years old ever referred to as a mere child?

The answer to all of these and more, is never! And since God's word must be fulfilled, then the only time that those conditions can exist is during that coming literal millennial kingdom.

When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, Satan will literally be seized by a mighty angel and will be thrown into the Abyss and sealed over him for a literal thousand years. This will be the same length of time as Jesus kingdom on this earth. It is also during this same thousand year time period, that the church, the 144,000 and the great tribulation saints will rule with Christ.

My advice for you, is to get your head out of those books written by men and start reading the one written by God. Because Satan is using those men to corrupt God's word. And when you or anyone else comes in here making the same claims, you become one of Satan's foot soldiers in distorting God's word.

The MILLENNIUM: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10840-millennium
By: Joseph Jacobs, A. Biram

Table of Contents

Messianic Period an Interregnum.

The reign of peace, lasting one thousand years, which will precede the Last Judgment and the future life. The concept has assumed especial importance in the Christian Church, where it is termed also “chiliasm,” designating the dominion of Jesus with the glorified and risen saints over the world for a thousand years. Chiliasm or the idea of the millennium is, nevertheless, older than the Christian Church; for the belief in a period of one thousand years at the end of time as a preliminary to the resurrection of the dead was held in Parseeism. This concept is expressed in Jewish literature in Enoch, xiii., xci. 12-17; in the apocalypse of the ten weeks, in Apoc. Baruch, xl. 3 (“And his dominion shall last forever, until the world doomed to destruction shall perish”); and in II Esdras vii. 28-29. Neither here nor in later Jewish literature is the duration of this Messianic reign fixed. It is clear, however, that the rule of the Messiah was considered as an interregnum, from the fact that in many passages, such as Pes. 68a, Ber. 34b, Sanh. 91b and 99a, Shab. 63a, 113b, and 141b, a distinction is made between and , although it must be noted that some regarded the Messianic rule as the period of the fulfilment of the prophecies, while others saw in it the time of the subjugation of the nations.



So it is no wonder it found its way into the first century Church comprised mainly of Jews.



But in time, the church condemned it as heresy. First, According to the Nicene Creed


We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Sproul, R. C. (Ed.). (2015). The Reformation Study Bible: English Standard Version (2015 Edition) (p. 2389). Orlando, FL: Reformation Trust.

And condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431 in two ways.



“In addition to its condemnation of Nestorianism, the council also condemned

Pelagianism, [2] and rejected premillennialism (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papias,

Tertullian, Origen, Lactantius) in favor of amillennialism (Clement of

Alexandria, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine of Hippo): "Augustine's

explanation became Church doctrine when it was adopted as the definitive

explanation of the millennium by the Council of Ephesus in 431."[35]



Secondly, “Canon 7 condemned any departure from the creed established by the First Council of Nicaea (325)” This affirmed Jesus “shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.” Thereby denouncing premillennialism and the doctrines leading up to and including Dispensationalism of the 1800s.



Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Council_of_Ephesus&oldid=921743450"

Here's a pdf file with an article by Sam Storms that explains the problems with premillennialism, including dispensationalism, very well.

i don't think the link I listed above works.

Sam is an amillennialist like myself. He used to be a dispensationalist. He has written a book "Kingdom Come: The Amillennial Alternative" on this matter.

Kim Riddlebarger's book "A Case For Amillennialism" is also excellent.

I challenge dispensationalists or historical premillennialists to refute his arguments. I find them rock solid.

I used to be a premillennialist myself.

Looks like Mr. Storms will probably miss the rapture. Why? He is denying the commandment of our Lord. And Jesus is EXPLICIT in warning He will come as a thief....to those who are NOT watchful and prepared.

John 14:1-3
Rom 8:19
1 Cor 1:7-8
1 Cor 15:1-53
1 Cor 16:22
Phil 3:20-21
Col 3:4
1 Thess 1:10
1 Thess 2:19
1 Thess 4:13-18
1 Thess 5:9
1 Thess 5:23
2 Thess 2:1 (3?)
1 Tim 6:14
2 Tim 4:1
Titus 2:13
Heb 9:28
James 5:7-9
1 Peter 1:7, 13
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 21
Rev 2:25
Rev 3:10

How would that affect a Amil position if they say the same thing. He will come like a thief in the night .The Amils are watching. That does not change his work done in the twinkling of the eye .

It doesnt matter what people believe. Its matters finaly what God says!
If you dont believe in Millenium, do so. But it is for shure not foundet from pharasees.
Its God words, which talkes about of.

Here's how it works. Daniel said the Kingdom of God came in the time of the Roman Empire. The born again saw it and continue to see it. Those not born again cannot see it. They look for the Pharisee's Millennial kingdom in the future instead. They walk by sight. The spiritual kingdom believers walk by faith.

So to whom Daniel spoke? To Christians ore to jews? To whom the prophecie is given ?
to jews ore to gentiles?
The thing is that many claimes peophecies which made for the national of Israel to themselfes.
The Millenium is an time of peace, which the world has not seen till yet. Why the prophecies should be made, if there are not to be seen, because they are Spiritual? That makes no sense.
The Millenium willcome as promissed, even people will discuss it away.

He spoke to Jews. Most expected a physical kingdom and missed it. The few born again began seeing it as arriving on time as Jesus preached the gospel of the spiritual kingdom. The Apostles also saw it by the time Peter preached it in Acts on Pentecost. Paul also preached the gospel of the kingdom.