Not By Works

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Feb 29, 2020
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Spiritually, yes, Abraham’s seed.
And the sword of the spirit is the word of God (Ephesians 6:17).

The book of Hebrews is the word of God.
  • The word of God is the sword of the spirit
  • We are spiritually Abraham's seed
Conclusion:

The book of Hebrews is written to believers.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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And the sword of the spirit is the word of God (Ephesians 6:17).

The book of Hebrews is the word of God.
  • The word of God is the sword of the spirit
  • We a spiritually Abraham's seed
Conclusion:

The book of Hebrews is written to believers.
Signs are for the Jews, we walk by faith. The Hebrew audience receives signs and wonders as the Jews did in Christ’s ministry and the early Church. Signs and miracles were never for the Gentile Church.

Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
 
Feb 29, 2020
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Signs are for the Jews
Once again:

Romans 2:
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 Samuel 16:
[7]...for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

God see's a Jew when he looks on a believer.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Once again:

Romans 2:
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 Samuel 16:
[7]...for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

God see's a Jew when he looks on a believer.
Once again, there is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ.

The distinction is between a Jew according to race or religion. The Church does not replace the Jew in regards to the physical promises.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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The distinction is between a Jew according to race or religion. The Church does not replace the Jew in regards to the physical promises.
The end goal of all scripture is to bring all to the eternal spiritual. All the benefits of the physical are temporal and of no lasting value. All is vanity here in the physical.

You can see how God was always trying to bring even old testament "Jews" into a knowledge of faith in inward unseen things.

Jeremiah 9:
[25] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised, with the uncircumcised; [26] Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the uttermost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised , and the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.

God is concerned with the spiritual unseen, not the physical things that men see.

2 Corinthians 4:
[18]...for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Man is placing a distinction, not God:

Acts 15:
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness...[9] And put no difference between us and them...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Hi there, it's interesting how one text says eternal life is irrevocable while other passages such as the parable of the Unmerciful Servant clearly demonstrate the contrary.

Instances such as these in Scripture usually result in the problem of Cognitive Dissonance and it is my experience that in the pursuit of a resolution, the mature Christian prioritizes truth-seeking over comfort, while the immature Christian does the opposite.

The search for truth leads us to the only explanation that we can find: "Conditional Salvation" - which says the promises of God, including the irrevocable gift of eternal life, can be claimed only by the exercise of living faith through the indwelling power of an enthroned Savior.

The OSAS Christian, having prioritized comfort over truth-seeking, employs the only neurological coping mechanism left to his disposal that can restore cognitive harmony: cast out the uncomfortable New Truth for the peaceful familiarity of the Old Truth...and that is how the OSAS crowd manages to either deliberately misinterpret the plain meaning of these aforementioned contrary passages or just pretend they don't exist altogether.

No we are NOT the ones Misinterpreting. You are misinterpreting Scripture.

John 3:3-7 (NIV)
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'


I am trying to be Patient with you, but You need to read my posts thoroughly, not just skim of over it.

The ABSOLUTELY Essential Experience, MUST HAVE HAPPENED TO YOU, is BORN AGAIN by the HOLY SPIRIT.


1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand
what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit,
expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are
foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


You can have both Born Again Servants and Non-Born Again servants.

The Same is true with disciples, which only mean Follower.

There are Born Again Disciples and Non-Born Again disciples.

It all depends on whether or not YOU ARE ACTUALLY Born Again.

Non-Born Again servants or disciples NEVER MAKE IT TO HEAVEN.


John 6:66 (NIV)
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.


These disciples NEVER were born again.


In case you are from a Church that does not Teach Born Again, I will explain.


We know that Jesus said that being Born Again is an absolute necessity, to enter into heaven.

I used to belong to an old fashioned LUTHERAN CHURCH, that used to say to teach Born Again is WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

NOT IN THE LEAST, because it CLEARLY says it is a major Function of the Holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 (NASB)
5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

Psalm 51:17 (ESV)
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

Romans 10:9-10 (NIV)
9 That if you confess {it has to happen in your HEART FIRST, also means Human Spirit First, a willing surrender to HIM as YOUR LORD, meaning Master, out of AGAPE LOVE,} with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and
no one can say [as a CONFESSION], Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.


That is how GOD SAYS we are to COME TO HIM, and RECEIVE the SON as LORD and MASTER, out of pure Agape LOVE.


John 1:12 (ESV)
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,


YES, that is the way I came, I, for almost two hours, cried over wave, after wave of extreme guilt,
before I surrendered to JESUS out of Agape Love, receiving HIM as my LORD and Master.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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So, you believe that saint who decides that loving thy neighbor is no longer fun and instead embarks on a life of sex, drugs, and rock and roll is still gonna be "in that number when the saints go marchin in"?

YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO START READING MY POSTS THOROUGHLY, IN STEAD OF JUST SKIMMING THROUGH THEM.

NEVER DID I SAY THAT. AND THAT IS A LIE ABOUT OSAS THEOLOGY.

You are NOT a N.T. Saint, until you are Born Again.

THE CHANGE BEING BORN AGAIN IN YOUR NEWLY BIRTHED HUMAN SPIRIT, WILL BE PERMANENT, AND ON GOING IN SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

I said, Never is OBEDIENCE IS A PART OF SALVATION.

OBEDIENCE SPAWNS FROM AGAPE LOVE AUTOMATICALLY.

THERE IS NO SUCH THINK AS A N.T. SAINT THAT HAS NO AGAPE LOVE, OR EVEN ABANDONS GOD'S LOVE THAT IS IN HIM.

TO DO SO, ONLY PROVES YOU WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN.


1 John 3:14-19 (NIV)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
{He then PROVES he was NEVER Born Again. See 1 John 2:19.}

15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?
18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence

Titus 3:4-11 (NIV)
4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


I only give you two warnings, and you are VERY CLOSE to getting your First Warning.
After the Second Warning, the very next time you approach me with that divisive attitude,
I will put you on my Permanent IGNORE LIST, and then NONE of your posts will show up on my Screen.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The problem with OSAS is that it teaches works are optional.
. . .


I have a couple of songs by OSAS Genuine Believers.

I have decided to follow Jesus, NO TURNING BACK.
Tho none go with me, STILL I WILL FOLLOW.

We have the POWER in us, the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF, who will GIVE US THE HELP, to CONTINUE TO FOLLOW.
If you cannot understand that, then you have never been BORN AGAIN.

I have been a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN SINCE THE LAST WEEK OF 1977, and my FAITH AND LOVE HAS GROWN STEADILY EVER SINCE.
NEVER did I want to LEAVE HIS LOVE AND FAITHFULNESS. THE POWER within me, to literally proclaim, NO TURNING BACK.


Here is a group of OSAS BELIEVERS, singing about their GENUINE OSAS FAITH.

I SURRENDER, I WANT KNOW YOU MORE, I SURRENDER. LORD HAVE YOUR WAY IN ME!

Perhaps You cannot understand, because YOU REALLY WANT to retain yourself as a lord of your own life ? ? ?

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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While I'm sure there are slight differences among them, OSAS believers as a whole either deliberately misinterpret or ignore altogether the many verses which contradict OSAS.
So basically you are accusing OSAS believers as a whole of being dishonest. I don't find many verses which contradict OSAS and I'm yet to find a verse in the Bible that unequivocally says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation."
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Did Jesus get crucified more than once? NO.. He did not..

And since He only had to die once for our sins, then how can we possibly lose our salvation? That would mean He would need to die on a daily basis..
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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"to stamp for security of preservation" is a subjective stretch of interpretation of that verse.
What about these verses? Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever? Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. (y)

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30) :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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2 Corinthians 12:
[12] Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Remember brother, Paul went to Corinth early in his ministry and proclaimed the gospel to the Jew first, then to the Gentiles. He wrought signs and miracles among them, not for the sake of the Gentiles, but for the Jews, showing them that the gospel is also going to the Gentiles. Signs and wonders were never meant for the sake of the Gentiles.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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What about these verses? Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever? Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. (y)

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30) :)
Agreed!

God doesn't fail in His promises. Man fails God, daily.
Even so, those who are His should just stick to THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION, THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, Who came to SAVE the lost , died, rose on the 3rd day.

Cant shake that seal of promise, no matter how hard you "kick against the goad", you are His.

Interesting word:
Strong's #4972: sphragizo (pronounced sfrag-id'-zo)
from 4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication, to keep secret, to attest:--(set a, set to) seal up, stop.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
sphragizō
1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
1a) for security: from Satan
1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
1c) in order to mark a person or a thing
1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God
1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
1d1a) of a written document
1d1b) to Proverbs one' s testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

Part of Speech: verb

God Bless!!!!
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Remember brother, Paul went to Corinth early in his ministry and proclaimed the gospel to the Jew first, then to the Gentiles. He wrought signs and miracles among them, not for the sake of the Gentiles, but for the Jews, showing them that the gospel is also going to the Gentiles. Signs and wonders were never meant for the sake of the Gentiles.
I only realized, more recently, that the issue of signs and wonders serves as yet another distinguishing feature of mid acts dispensationalists from others.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I only realized, more recently, that the issue of signs and wonders serves as yet another distinguishing feature of mid acts dispensationalists from others.
Here’s a verse I recently discovered. In the beginning of the gospel?

Philippians 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Here’s a verse I recently discovered. In the beginning of the gospel?

Philippians 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Phil 4:15 And as you Philippians know, at the beginning of my gospel ministry, when I left Macedonia, no church shared with me in this matter of giving and receiving except you alone.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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You have no assurance of eternal life. There may be a point in the future when you stop believing. 🤭
My changed life is the assurance that I have the Holy Spirit in me through faith in Christ. The assurance that you have believed unto salvation is your changed life. This is plainly taught in the Bible. Osas says how you live your life means nothing towards showing if you are saved or not.

And, yes, every humble believer should realize they stand by faith, and if they stop having faith in Christ they, too, will be cut out of the tree, just as the Israelites were for their unbelief. This is plainly explained in Hebrews 11. The arrogance of the osas movement is completely contrary to Paul's warning to the church to humbly and fearfully continue in the kindness of God, or be cut out of the tree like the unbelieving Jews were.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Phil 4:15 And as you Philippians know, at the beginning of my gospel ministry, when I left Macedonia, no church shared with me in this matter of giving and receiving except you alone.
Boy, what a disparity of words. Stick with the word of truth, the KJV.😉
 
Nov 16, 2019
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But you never know what the future holds. Circumstances may arise that makes you stop believing. No peace in your theology.
Peace and security come from continuing to believe in Christ, the source of peace and security. And when faith is tested, if we will but ask, Christ is faithful to strengthen and increase our faith and keep us in the race.