Not By Works

The tense shows us the author is saying you keep what occurred in the past (becoming a partaker of Christ) if you hold the conviction of faith you started out in.

It's absurd to make it say only really saved people prove they are saved if in the end when Christ returns we see that they believed to the very end. What use is that? For the great boast of security and assurance osas makes that means you can't know you're saved until the very end. What a stupid doctrine.

But you say he wasn't really forgiven.
He was indeed forgiven.
The passage plainly says so.

Good grief, dan, it's a parable.
It illustrates the debt of sin we are in bondage to. The taskmaster of sin.

No it doesn't

Nice twist. I really didn’t expect you to understand the truth.

Blanket statement from those who reject the doctrine of OSAS.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate and showing your true colours and judgemental attitude and false accusations against the many.

Your problem is you continue to overlook the fact that this is a repulsive, hypothetical situation in this parable to make a point about forgiveness and we could never pay back our sin debt (which is too huge) and an unforgiving, unmerciful heart cannot expect to receive forgiveness from the Lord, although He is compassionate and willing to forgive.

Sorry that last paragraph doesn't make sense to me.

On one hand it's absurd if only really saved people prove they are saved when Christ returns we see that they believed to the very end.

Yet you say/believe we are only saved if we believe to the very end.

Therefore you yourself have proved you are saved because you believed to the very end.

I see a contradiction here.

Clarify for me please.

Okay, let’s try it your way. For starters, our sin debt is too large to pay back, yet the Lord is going to sell us, along with our wife and kids to pay it back. Now explain to me exactly how that will work.

Now if we just beg and plead with the Lord enough to forgive our sins, He will automatically forgive our sins, even if He knows we have an unforgiving heart in small matters? Explain exactly how that works as well.

So according to your interpretation, apparently the Lord is not all knowing and forgives us regardless, because He is compassionate and pities us when we beg.

So as you can see, the kingdom of God is like or compared to a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants, but this doesn’t mean the parable is to be taken line upon line, exactly like it in every detail.

Yeah well, I am more than amazed not only at your stubbornness but how you contradict Jesus at every turn

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 10 27-29

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 10 28-30

...and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:30

....having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Colossians 2:14

What is the purpose of the parable?

Listen carefully no gift is revoked
This parable is not about God as judge pardoning sin like He does when a sinner is justified. The parable in no way is teaching the plan of salvation, that is just plan bad exegesis.

There are two aspects of forgiveness just like there are to faith, saving faith and the faith that follows salvation.

This parable is about the union the believer has with God... remember the audience are the Jews and how they are to interact with each other is what is in view, as well as their relationship to God.

So far we (OSAS people on this thread) have refuted every single argument you have presented.
OSAS is the Gospel and nothing less.

John 14:6 JESUS saith unto him,I am the WAY,the TRUTH,and the LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by ME.


Zechariah 8:16 These are the things that ye SHALL DO;SPEAK ye every man the TRUTH to His neighbor; execute the judgment of TRUTH and PEACE in your gates:

2Timothy 2:24 And the SERVANT of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto ALL men,apt to TEACH,PATIENT,

2Timothy 2:14 Of THESE things put them in REMEMBRANCE,charging them before the Lord that they STRIVE NOT ABOUT...WORDS...TO NO PROFIT,but to the SUBVERTING of the hearers.

John 8:32 AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU.......... FREE.

@mailmandan , I know you were speaking of the parable of the unforgiving servant as a hypothetical situation. Yet there is something I am wondering about. It appears to me that Jesus spoke this parable after Peter asked about how often he should forgive his brother. Peter is also a disciple of Jesus and has his name in the book of life. What message is Jesus trying to convey to Peter? How come Jesus says “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”( Matthew 18:35 NIV)? How would this verse be applicable to someone who is saved?

Oh yep he will have to face the Almighty and explain how "he" can do something that God thru His Son Jesus has already done. I'd hate to be trying to explain that one to the Lord.

The works/or no works will be judged. The "salvation" of one's soul has already been taken care of. Salvation is a one time deal. Growing in the Lord and doing worthy works is an ongoing, daily, earthly thing.

Once saved always saved says simply we are to believe on Jesus Christ, accept Him as our savior, believe He is and profess with our mouth that He is.

Acts 4:12 | KJV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

2 Timothy 1:9 | KJV Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Romans 10:10 | KJV For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 3:17 | KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 | KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thank you Jesus for saving us

The only "cased closed" is the Shed Blood of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who "closed" the case once and for all on the Cross. It is through Him when we accept Him that the "case is closed."

You do not even UNDERSTAND the BASICS in OSAS THEOLOGY, only the lies from what others have taught you that do not believe in OSAS, and object lessons from your misguided parents.

You SAID:
1. guilty and condemned
2. asked for and received forgiveness granted based on nothing but the grace of his master.
3. went away totally free and forgiven;
4. wound up back in front of his master condemned and guilty and sentenced to the IDENTICAL fate for which he was originally forgiven.

ONE: We are Guilty, and deserve to be Condemned. We have confessed our SINS, and Continually as the Holy Spirit makes us aware in our Human Spirit by conviction, to CONFESS each New Sin we find in our lives, as a spiritual Lifestyle, in accordance to 1 John 1:8-10. We strive to follow the Spiritual Mind in our Heart, which is the Born Again New Nature of our LIVING Spirit, and NOT Mind that lies between our ears. Like Dr. MacArthur has said on Numerous occasions: "The Born Again Christian is not SINLESS, however as he or she Matures Spiritually, they will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS."

If This SEEMS LIKE PURE FOOLISHNESS to you, perhaps it is because of the following verses:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


TWO: You almost got that one right, but you forgot TWO IMPORTANT THINGS. Yes, HE forgives us based on HIS GRACE, But the Repentance, (an ABOUT FACE to return walking like GOD WANTS YOU, will automatically BE IN OUR HEART), which is a WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND HIS ABSOLUTE MERCY is the other side of the GRACE coin, & MERCY. You see, we will always want to do want pleases our Heavenly Father and LORD out of that GODly LOVE HE poured into us, and thank GOD we have the Holy Spirit to EMPOWER us to do it. NO, that is NOT WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, it is part of what the HOLY SPIRIT does in our HEART. You see, IT IS NOT THAT YOU DO IT, IT IS WHY WE DO IT.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves,
but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
Pleas READ.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 4:16 (NASB)
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (HCSB)
Please Read.

Matthew 3:8 (ESV)
8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. {Does the FRUIT or the sprouting of the SEED comes forth first ? ? ? SALVATION is the Sprouting of the SEED, and Bearing FRUIT, happens LATER after SALVATION, and is called SANCTIFICATION. Gal. 5:22-23.}

THREE: & FOUR: I protest YOUR separating the two, when it is made to represent one Person that NEVER WAS BORN AGAIN, because the Primary FRUIT of that TRULY BORN AGAIN Person, HAS within HIM, is AGAPE LOVE, and he NEVER DID HAVE ANY AGAPE LOVE, in the first place. You did that deceitfully, trying to make it look like a SAVED person Lost HIS SALVATION.

Here is the full parable like it was supposed to be written and read:

Matthew 18:23-35 (GW)
23 “That is why the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 When he began to do this, a servant who owed him millions of dollars was brought to him.
25 Because he could not pay off the debt, the master ordered him, his wife, his children, and all that he had to be sold to pay off the account.
26 Then the servant fell at his master's feet and said, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay everything!'
27 “The master felt sorry for his servant, freed him, and canceled his debt.
28 But when that servant went away, he found a servant who owed him hundreds of dollars. He grabbed the servant he found and began to choke him. ‘Pay what you owe!' he said.
29 “Then that other servant fell at his feet and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you.'
30 But he refused. Instead, he turned away and had that servant put into prison until he would repay what he owed.
31 “The other servants who worked with him saw what had happened and felt very sad. They told their master the whole story.
32 “Then his master sent for him and said to him, ‘You evil servant! I canceled your entire debt, because you begged me.
33 Shouldn't you have treated the other servant as mercifully as I treated you?'
34 “His master was so angry that he handed him over to the torturers until he would repay everything that he owed.
{That was more money than he could earn in several life times.}
35 That is what my Father in heaven will do to you if each of you does not sincerely forgive other believers.”

Now You may be surprised that I saw through your SCHEME, so for THAT, YOU HAVE YOUR FIRST WARNING.
Here is a parallel portion of Scripture, proving the SAME POINT:

1 John 3:14-19 (GW)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love other believers.
The person who doesn't grow in love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates another believer is a murderer, and you know that a murderer doesn't have eternal life.
16 We understand what love is when we realize that Christ gave his life for us. That means we must give our lives for other believers.
17 Now, suppose a person has enough to live on and notices another believer in need.
How can God's love be in that person if he doesn't bother to help the other believer?
18 Dear children, we must show love through actions that are sincere, not through empty words.
19 This is how we will know that we belong to the truth and how we will be reassured in his presence.

You must be blind then pal....David spoke of his salvation in the present tense and you are not that bright if you think the Corinthian BROTHER was not a saved child of God.....just another Cainologist deceiver is exactly what you are!

No such thing as conditional salvation under the NEW Covenant other than genuine FAITH into the work of Jesus....wake up....conflating truth = lost and hell to pay dude!