The Kingdom Of God is Within You

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
#61
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#61
tanakh said:
And when he was demanded of the of the Pharisees when
the kingdom of God should come. He answered them and
said The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation
neither shall they say Lo here or Lo there for behold the
Kingdom of God is within you

Luke 17:20 KJV

I would be interested to see exactly how people on site understand this statement seeing that he said
it to the Pharisees and not directly to his Disciples.
Click to expand...
Jesus said to repent, for the kingdom is at hand.

Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

These are equivalent.

Some kooky teachers have claimed this means that there is some inner spiritual reservoir, even amongst unbelievers, that needs to be tapped. An example of this comes from Bob Jones, a self-professed seer:



I am studying Gnosticism in a history class online, and I believe Bob Jones' idea is very close to Gnosticism...the claim that there is some divine spark within the unsaved person. I might be misunderstanding Jones, though. It is hard to make sense out of some charismatic utterances.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#62
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,041
113
77
#62
John146 said:
I see it as the kingdom of heaven is the promised Jewish kingdom on earth and the promised King ruling on the throne of David from Zion in Jerusalem. It’s only mentioned in Matthew.
Click to expand...
I hope this will finally settle the argument.....

the kingdom of Heaven is at hand Matt 4:17
the kingdom of God is at hand Mark 1: 15

Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven Matt 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God Luke 6:20

....he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven Matt 11:11
....he who is least in the kingdom of God Luke 7: 28

...the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven Matt 13:11
.. the mysteries of the kingdom of God Mark 4:11, Luke 8: 10

Except you be converted and become as little children you shall not enter
the Kingdom of Heaven Matt 18: 3-4

Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child he shall not
enter therein Mark 10:15

.... a rich man shall hardly enter the kingdom of Heaven Matt 19:23

How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the kingdom of God Luke 18: 24
 
G

garee

Banned
#63
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#63
TheDivineWatermark said:
I vaguely recall in our convos the difficulty I'm finding in your "chronology"... for example, I had posted the following (as part of our discussion--if I'm recalling rightly that it was with you, and I think I am :D ):


[quoting an old post on the "[BE] SET UP [H5414]" of Daniel 12:11]

Here's something I posted back in ___, when discussing with ___... Note especially the parts about the "abomination [SINGULAR]" that both Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 12:11 use (connecting these in particular) and the word for "set up" in Dan12:11--I believe this is important to note:

[quoting that post from back then (pretty sure my highlighting won't transfer here)]

Here's my thinking on that.

I think I've mentioned a cpl times the usage of the "abomination [singular]" that Jesus refers to (where He said in Matt24:15 "When ye therefore see the abomination [singular] of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place..."), that this points back to its usage in the singular also in Daniel, that being Daniel 12:11 "the abomination [singular] which maketh desolate SET UP [H5414]..."; so it is this "set up [H5414]" word that I think may help us when looking into [...<snip>...]

--"set up" - H5414 - "weletet/nathan" - [meaning] "give, put, set [established, permit, executes]"

[...<snip>...]

"and the abomination [singular (like Matt24:15)] that maketh desolate set up [H5414]..."

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12-11.htm [then hover your cursor over the number 5414, here at link, to see the pop-up extended definition and usages]

[and]

Allow me to just insert (what I've said in the past), I do believe the "flee" in Matt24:16 correlates with the "fled/fly" of Rev12:6,14 (with 1260 days remaining until His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)… so there's that, to consider also.

[i.e. the duration of time in both passages ENDS at the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth (not "our Rapture") and the resurrection of OT saints (per Dan12:13's wording speaking of "at the END of the days [the "days" referred to in THAT context]") FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom--the "G347 - shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" (Matt8:11, for example)--Whereas Daniel 12:12 speaks of those who will still be LIVING at that same point in time: "BLESSED" (parallel with about 8-9 other "BLESSED" passages that speak to this same Subject matter/time-slot--like Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 'when he will RETURN FROM the wedding'... THEN the meal... "BLESSED" (and this passage's parallels--Matt24:42-47 "BLESSED," etc); and like in Rev19:9 "BLESSED" re: "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the MK age (distinct from v.7); and like in Rev16:15-16 "BLESSED" (Armageddon timing), etc etc]

[and]

See also Matthew 24:15's "standing [G2476 - histemi]" :

--"standing [G2476 - hestos/histemi]" … "Usage: trans: (a) I make to stand, place, set up, establish, appoint; mid: I place myself, stand, (b) I set in balance, weigh; intrans: (c) I stand, stand by, stand still; met: I stand ready, stand firm, am steadfast." [source: Bible Hub; G2476 in Matthew 24:15 is a "transitive verb" as shown defined in the bolded portion above]

[end quoting that portion, with a clarifying inserted bracketed section for this post]


____________

I had also mentioned the "chronology" aspect supplied by the wording in Lk21:12, which (when boiled down) says that the beginning of birth pangs won't happen until the 70ad events take place "BEFORE" them... and that the 70ad events "end" with what Lk21:24b states, "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations" (with v.32's "ALL"--"till ALL be fulfilled" necessarily INCLUDING what v.24b just said), whereas Matt24:29-31's "end [-result / -outcome]" (when viewing its parallel passage of Isa27:12-13) has them being gathered TO... JERUSALEM"--the EXACT OPPOSITE "outcomes / ends".

As I recall it (tho somewhat fuzzy, I admit), your viewpoint does not have adequate explanation for these things. So I remain unconvinced of your view. = )
Click to expand...
One problem with that is. Christ is reigning in the hearts of his new kingdom of priest. We have that treasure of his power that works in our bodies of death. If the Son of man did not leave we would still be waiting for the indwelling that we do have when we offer our new tongue the gospel . Jesus said if he does not leave the Holy Spirit the anointing Spirit of Christ would not come. I would think obviously he is here.

The abomination of desolation is simply .The temporal corrupted things seen standing in the holy place of the unseen, father. Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand there in the place of faith, or face of God.

The time of reformation 1st century a carbon copy of the 15th had come the beginning of the last days represented by a unknown (thousand years) . The jew lost their temporal face that used as shadow . The veil was rent from the heavens to the earth .Top to bottom. The nakedness of jew that were trusting their flesh was exposed A great tribulation like never before or ever again . all of the nations of the world wondered at that demonstration and remain wondering .

I would think other nations would say. Who is this God who writes his will with his finger in stone.? He is still converting the hearts of all the nations as Abraham "the father of many nations" .
 
G

garee

Banned
#64
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#64
UnitedWithChrist said:
Jesus said to repent, for the kingdom is at hand.

Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

These are equivalent.

Some kooky teachers have claimed this means that there is some inner spiritual reservoir, even amongst unbelievers, that needs to be tapped. An example of this comes from Bob Jones, a self-professed seer:



I am studying Gnosticism in a history class online, and I believe Bob Jones' idea is very close to Gnosticism...the claim that there is some divine spark within the unsaved person. I might be misunderstanding Jones, though. It is hard to make sense out of some charismatic utterances.
Click to expand...
That is one reason I focus on looking to the foundation of the doctrine Isaiah 28 building on the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14 adding to foundation and completes the purpose as a finished work .

It would seem according to the law utterances or baby noises are what they use to mock god and fall back to finish the work of mocking (sola scriptura) what they call baby talk Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham. So its not what are the babies saying but rather a opportunity to mock sola scriptura .

The word meaning is not part of the doctrine .But the idea of self veneration or edification adding a personal touch that other can see.The strange way

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. 13 So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured Isaiah 28:11-14

Why mock God and call it a blessing or even get close to that strange fire? Why not simple fall forward humbling oneself ?
Why mock God in that way.. What's the hope? Remove the sign indicating the spirit of judgement? How would that benefit the believer?

Strange way of talking or communicating could be compared to when Aaron's two sons had a desire to become priest through the ceremonies like baptism , They added what is called strange fire. But just like the strange of talking like a baby, its the thought that condemned them . Pride before destruction.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#65
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#65
garee said:
One problem with that is. Christ is reigning in the hearts of his new kingdom of priest. We have that treasure of his power that works in our bodies of death. If the Son of man did not leave we would still be waiting for the indwelling that we do have when we offer our new tongue the gospel . Jesus said if he does not leave the Holy Spirit the anointing Spirit of Christ would not come. I would think obviously he is here.
Click to expand...
This ^ has to do with [what I'd put in other posts about] what Acts 3:21 is conveying... [the] "UNTIL" issues (in a number of other related passages also), so...

yes (I don't entirely disagree ;) ), but pertaining to the "chronology" issues, we are ("in this present age [singular]") ministering, so to speak, from the vantage point of "the PATIENCE [G5281 - hupomone] *OF* Christ / *OF* Jesus" rather than presently from the vantage point of His "VENGEANCE" which is stated to occur in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period instead (Rev1:1 [/4:1/1:19c/[7:3]; and Lk18:8, and esp Rom16:20 [<--as this verse pertains to "the Church which is His body" and our role of "we SHALL JUDGE ANGELS" 1Cor6:3]! i.e. the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" allotted-time-period in these [bolded] verses/passages, related--These are not "presently"); so...


"the PATIENCE [G5281] *OF* Christ" -

--2 Thessalonians 3:5 - "Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience [G5281] of Christ."

[see also 1Th1:3 "patience [G5281] of hope"--and recall what "HOPE" relates to ;) ]


--Revelation 1:9 - "I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience [G5281] in Jesus, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus."


--Revelation 3:10 - "Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance [/'the word of My patience [G5281]'], I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come [/sure/certain [mello] to come] upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."


--Titus 2:2 - "aged men [presbytas] to be temperate, grave, sober,

sound in the faith, in the love, in the endurance/patience [G5281];

[note ^ the similarities of the well-known trio of this present age: "faith, HOPE, love"... but here in this verse used with the definite article, 'the'--"THE patience [G5281]"]



IOW, the "VENGEANCE" aspect is not what is taking place in the NOW. This has to do with the "chronology" issues that the "spiritualized" viewpoint seems to disregard entirely.

I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint due to these "chronology" issues. = )
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#66
Aug 22, 2014
2,985
973
113
44
#66
TheDivineWatermark said:
I vaguely recall in our convos the difficulty I'm finding in your "chronology"... for example, I had posted the following (as part of our discussion--if I'm recalling rightly that it was with you, and I think I am :D ):


[quoting an old post on the "[BE] SET UP [H5414]" of Daniel 12:11]

Here's something I posted back in ___, when discussing with ___... Note especially the parts about the "abomination [SINGULAR]" that both Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 12:11 use (connecting these in particular) and the word for "set up" in Dan12:11--I believe this is important to note:

[quoting that post from back then (pretty sure my highlighting won't transfer here)]

Here's my thinking on that.

I think I've mentioned a cpl times the usage of the "abomination [singular]" that Jesus refers to (where He said in Matt24:15 "When ye therefore see the abomination [singular] of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place..."), that this points back to its usage in the singular also in Daniel, that being Daniel 12:11 "the abomination [singular] which maketh desolate SET UP [H5414]..."; so it is this "set up [H5414]" word that I think may help us when looking into [...<snip>...]

--"set up" - H5414 - "weletet/nathan" - [meaning] "give, put, set [established, permit, executes]"

[...<snip>...]

"and the abomination [singular (like Matt24:15)] that maketh desolate set up [H5414]..."

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12-11.htm [then hover your cursor over the number 5414, here at link, to see the pop-up extended definition and usages]

[and]

Allow me to just insert (what I've said in the past), I do believe the "flee" in Matt24:16 correlates with the "fled/fly" of Rev12:6,14 (with 1260 days remaining until His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)… so there's that, to consider also.

[i.e. the duration of time in both passages ENDS at the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth (not "our Rapture") and the resurrection of OT saints (per Dan12:13's wording speaking of "at the END of the days [the "days" referred to in THAT context]") FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom--the "G347 - shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" (Matt8:11, for example)--Whereas Daniel 12:12 speaks of those who will still be LIVING at that same point in time: "BLESSED" (parallel with about 8-9 other "BLESSED" passages that speak to this same Subject matter/time-slot--like Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 'when he will RETURN FROM the wedding'... THEN the meal... "BLESSED" (and this passage's parallels--Matt24:42-47 "BLESSED," etc); and like in Rev19:9 "BLESSED" re: "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the MK age (distinct from v.7); and like in Rev16:15-16 "BLESSED" (Armageddon timing), etc etc]

[and]

See also Matthew 24:15's "standing [G2476 - histemi]" :

--"standing [G2476 - hestos/histemi]" … "Usage: trans: (a) I make to stand, place, set up, establish, appoint; mid: I place myself, stand, (b) I set in balance, weigh; intrans: (c) I stand, stand by, stand still; met: I stand ready, stand firm, am steadfast." [source: Bible Hub; G2476 in Matthew 24:15 is a "transitive verb" as shown defined in the bolded portion above]

[end quoting that portion, with a clarifying inserted bracketed section for this post]


____________

I had also mentioned the "chronology" aspect supplied by the wording in Lk21:12, which (when boiled down) says that the beginning of birth pangs won't happen until the 70ad events take place "BEFORE" them... and that the 70ad events "end" with what Lk21:24b states, "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations" (with v.32's "ALL"--"till ALL be fulfilled" necessarily INCLUDING what v.24b just said), whereas Matt24:29-31's "end [-result / -outcome]" (when viewing its parallel passage of Isa27:12-13) has them being gathered TO... JERUSALEM"--the EXACT OPPOSITE "outcomes / ends".

As I recall it (tho somewhat fuzzy, I admit), your viewpoint does not have adequate explanation for these things. So I remain unconvinced of your view. = )
Click to expand...
Dude I'm sorry but I can't follow whatever it is that this is saying. I have no clue what this changes about what the text says, and not only that you will not just clearly type out what you believe. You cut and paste this insane bunch of parenthesis, backslashes, brackets, colons and semicolons and act as if this makes your case, when you've yet to just put all this to the side and tell me what you believe. The fact of the matter is that if you don't believe these things take place in a physical earthly "3rd" temple then you belong to a minority smaller than I do. Still in all of our conversations you have yet to put all of, whatever it is that is posted above me, aside, and tell me strait up what do you believe this means? How are you saying it will happen? Because this doesn't explain a thing to me. Use "your" words.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#67
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#67
Those WERE my words. :D

I've not "cut & paste" anyone else's materials (other than when I show the definitions taken from/quoted from BibleHub).

My view (as I said):

--Paul NEVER uses the definite article ('the') when he speaks of "the Church which is His body" as "temple";

--2Th2:4 (and Rev11:1) both say "THE temple of God" (and the latter of these two references distinguishes between "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN")... so this is speaking more of a structure, not within persons; HOWEVER...

--2Th2:3-12 is speaking of the SAME "future" time period that is mentioned in Dan9:27... BECAUSE 9:24-27 is written in a SEQUENTIAL order... meaning, the events of 70ad (v.26b) take place BEFORE the events spelled out in v.27a/b/c... just the same as the "chronology/sequence" issues in the Olivet Discourse I've posted about in the past re: the beginning of birth pangs and what happens when in relation TO THOSE...

... not to mention the "chronology/SEQUENCE" also found in Matt22:7's 70ad events [/Lk21:23,20 / Lk19:41-44] and that of Matt22:8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'... necessarily taking place AFTER the 70ad events... i.e. the LATER 95ad "Revelation" written, as spelled out in Rev1:1 re: the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" future aspects of the Book, that are not identical to "the things which ARE" in chpts 2-3, which themselves are NOT a part of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time frame, see ;) ]​
​
​
...THIS MEANS that 2Th2:4 event ("sitteth in the temple of God..." re: the "man of sin") is FUTURE (future yet to us, from our perspective presently--however, we will not be present on the earth at that time... not wanting to make this post any longer so will not go into THAT explanation again, here in this post :D ).​
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#68
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#68
TheDivineWatermark said:
This ^ has to do with [what I'd put in other posts about] what Acts 3:21 is conveying... [the] "UNTIL" issues (in a number of other related passages also), [...]
Click to expand...
Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age. " (i.e. the OT prophecies / prophets [not yet fully "fulfilled," this is saying]... distinct from that of the "[NT] apostles and prophets" [i.e. as disclosed in the NT following His death/resurrection] which theretofore had not yet been disclosed, at the time/setting of Acts 3)
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#69
Aug 22, 2014
2,985
973
113
44
#69
TheDivineWatermark said:
Those WERE my words. :D

I've not "cut & paste" anyone else's materials (other than when I show the definitions taken from/quoted from BibleHub).

My view (as I said):

--Paul NEVER uses the definite article ('the') when he speaks of "the Church which is His body" as "temple";

--2Th2:4 (and Rev11:1) both say "THE temple of God" (and the latter of these two references distinguishes between "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN")... so this is speaking more of a structure, not within persons; HOWEVER...

--2Th2:3-12 is speaking of the SAME "future" time period that is mentioned in Dan9:27... BECAUSE 9:24-27 is written in a SEQUENTIAL order... meaning, the events of 70ad (v.26b) take place BEFORE the events spelled out in v.27a/b/c... just the same as the "chronology/sequence" issues in the Olivet Discourse I've posted about in the past re: the beginning of birth pangs and what happens when in relation TO THOSE...

... not to mention the "chronology/SEQUENCE" also found in Matt22:7's 70ad events [/Lk21:23,20 / Lk19:41-44] and that of Matt22:8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'... necessarily taking place AFTER the 70ad events... i.e. the LATER 95ad "Revelation" written, as spelled out in Rev1:1 re: the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" future aspects of the Book, that are not identical to "the things which ARE" in chpts 2-3, which themselves are NOT a part of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time frame, see ;) ]​
​
​
...THIS MEANS that 2Th2:4 event ("sitteth in the temple of God..." re: the "man of sin") is FUTURE (future yet to us, from our perspective presently--however, we will not be present on the earth at that time... not wanting to make this post any longer so will not go into THAT explanation again, here in this post :D ).​
Click to expand...
First I apologize for the wrong assumption you cut and pasted all this mess you type out. It blows my mind you do that on purpose, because for the record, that does not make it easy to understand what the heck you're trying to say. I do apologize for falsely accusing you though. I am curious to know why you write this way? It makes very little sense to me and seems to over complicate everything for no reason. Can you communicate without all that mess?

Anyway, this was a "very little" bit easier to decipher, but all I gather from what you said was Paul was speaking as if this was going to take place in the future. Guess what? I agree, to him it was still in the future. This does absolutely nothing to the case I'm making. Paul was beheaded in Rome before Jerusalem fell, everything he wrote was written with this event in the future. So the point your making here, if I can even understand it, is irrelevant.

[{do}you; (As in YOU the person YOU are::}] [(un)der]-;Stand;, what.... (i)['}{m} SAY(ing)<--- (?)
_
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#70
Aug 22, 2014
2,985
973
113
44
#70
TheDivineWatermark said:
Those WERE my words. :D

I've not "cut & paste" anyone else's materials (other than when I show the definitions taken from/quoted from BibleHub).

My view (as I said):

--Paul NEVER uses the definite article ('the') when he speaks of "the Church which is His body" as "temple";

--2Th2:4 (and Rev11:1) both say "THE temple of God" (and the latter of these two references distinguishes between "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN")... so this is speaking more of a structure, not within persons; HOWEVER...

--2Th2:3-12 is speaking of the SAME "future" time period that is mentioned in Dan9:27... BECAUSE 9:24-27 is written in a SEQUENTIAL order... meaning, the events of 70ad (v.26b) take place BEFORE the events spelled out in v.27a/b/c... just the same as the "chronology/sequence" issues in the Olivet Discourse I've posted about in the past re: the beginning of birth pangs and what happens when in relation TO THOSE...

... not to mention the "chronology/SEQUENCE" also found in Matt22:7's 70ad events [/Lk21:23,20 / Lk19:41-44] and that of Matt22:8 ['THEN SAITH HE to his servants'... necessarily taking place AFTER the 70ad events... i.e. the LATER 95ad "Revelation" written, as spelled out in Rev1:1 re: the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" future aspects of the Book, that are not identical to "the things which ARE" in chpts 2-3, which themselves are NOT a part of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time frame, see ;) ]​
​
​
...THIS MEANS that 2Th2:4 event ("sitteth in the temple of God..." re: the "man of sin") is FUTURE (future yet to us, from our perspective presently--however, we will not be present on the earth at that time... not wanting to make this post any longer so will not go into THAT explanation again, here in this post :D ).​
Click to expand...
AND if this is not happening in Gods earthly temple, then please stop deconstructing and picking apart my belief that I've shared and clearly lay out and answer when asked, because I'm interested in truth, not winning an argument, and tell me using His word (like you are) of course, exactly how you believe these thing happen. You have to admit that this idea you're suggesting, that these things do not take place in Gods "3rd temple" , is not one I've ever even heard of. Now can you lay out what you believe, using scripture, so we can hyper analyze you view now. Because if you have told me CLEARLY exactly what you believe, I missed it. Can you please just talk to me without all that crap you do? Lets speak on a level we can BOTH understand, because I'm WAY too dumb for all that intellectual mumbo jumbo you're dumping on me. Thanks.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#71
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#71
tanakh said:
And when he was demanded of the of the Pharisees when
the kingdom of God should come. He answered them and
said The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation
neither shall they say Lo here or Lo there for behold the
Kingdom of God is within you

Luke 17:20 KJV

I would be interested to see exactly how people on site understand this statement seeing that he said
it to the Pharisees and not directly to his Disciples.
Click to expand...
You could review Matthew 12 for more info on this...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#72
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#72
tanakh said:
Did they? Jesus said that it doesn't come with observation if he really said it was among them or in their midst then
they would have been able to either point to him his miracles or to their surroundings as opposed to being able to observe
the kingdom within themselves
Click to expand...
HE...was among them...and they did not recognize it...
That was what HE was referring to...their disbelief...and their incorrect statement and observation of how HE could do all the things HE could do...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#74
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#74
ForestGreenCook said:
That is true, and the church, which is the kingdom of Jesus, being it's king and husband of the church, which is his bride. The church is called by many different names in the scriptures, such as; The church of the first born, The remnant, The church in the wilderness, Zion, The church of God, the church of Christ, The few, and many more. The church is not a building, but exists within this tabernacle of clay, which is our bodies. There is the invisible church and the visible church. (Ezk 1:12 and following verses). The visible church are those that are preaching and teaching the truth of Jesus's doctrine, and the invisible church are the rest of God's elect that do not have the full knowledge of His doctrine, and are also the lost sheep of the house of Jacob/Israel who Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to.
Click to expand...
In those visible churches, are also those who are part of HIS BODY....
Your comment implied that those preaching and teaching are not born of HIS SPIRIT...but that is not a complete truth,..in every outward denominational visible church structure, which is more the outward profession before the eyes of men of who we believe and worship, there will be those who do know who and what they worship inwardly upon the heart...

And HE,thankfully already knows this..
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#75
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#75
John146 said:
Kingdom of heaven. Heaven is a physical place created by God. It suffers violence. That’s not spiritual violence my friend. The throne of David is physical, in Zion located in Jerusalem. That’s physical not spiritual.
Click to expand...
It is also spiritual violence sir, it is the violence of those who claimed to have the ¨keys to the kingdom¨, but did nothing to open the doors to those who wanted access, who were suffering and who relied on these spiritual heads and leaders to be their connection to GOD.


And these were the ones who couldn´t make a right judgement... which is why CHRIST upbraids them...


I think you should review Matthew 11 and 12 together...

The rulers, the teachers of THE WORD, didn´t believe

What does CHRIST say to them about that...

That the men of old will stand in the judgement...and condemn them...

Because...the pharisees saw all the things that CHRIST was doing, but their judgement was way off....
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#76
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#76
John146 said:
Please don’t mock the Lords ability to rule. This world is in darkness. This world is in sin. If Christ was ruling this world, it would not be in this condition. No wonder people think Jesus is a joke if there are people spreading the rumor that Jesus is ruling as King right now. Pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...
It is HIS GRACE right now that HE is withholding sir...

CHRIST has two ministries. sir..

Currently, HE is the LAMB of GOD...
But that other minisitry...the LION of the TRIBE of JUDAH, will not come until all who belong to HIM are gathered up in HIM...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#77
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#77
John146 said:
Please don’t mock the Lords ability to rule. This world is in darkness. This world is in sin. If Christ was ruling this world, it would not be in this condition. No wonder people think Jesus is a joke if there are people spreading the rumor that Jesus is ruling as King right now. Pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...
The reason HE isn´t coming back yet sir...is because for one to be called and hear HIS VOICE, it isn´t to be by force sir...it will be by that cut to the heart, knee buckling revelation of HIM.,..

If HE were to come back and rule, that´s not true disciples sir.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#78
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#78
My above post was not clear...
Your post said that the world would not be in this condition, someone, not sure it was you, said HE would rule with an iron sceptre.(all this is true of course).

But then those are not HIS TRUE DISCIPLES sir...they are just being ruled and they came to the revelation of who HE is, as the lion...and not the lamb....

Please read Luke 4...when CHRIST read from the book of Isaiah, HE stopped midpoint of a particular verse in Isaiah and announced HIS MINISTRY saying TODAY, scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing...

The second part of HIS ministry, the vengeance of our GOD, doesn´t start yet
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#79
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#79
miknik5 said:
It is also spiritual violence sir, it is the violence of those who claimed to have the ¨keys to the kingdom¨, but did nothing to open the doors to those who wanted access, who were suffering and who relied on these spiritual heads and leaders to be their connection to GOD.


And these were the ones who couldn´t make a right judgement... which is why CHRIST upbraids them...


I think you should review Matthew 11 and 12 together...

The rulers, the teachers of THE WORD, didn´t believe

What does CHRIST say to them about that...

That the men of old will stand in the judgement...and condemn them...

Because...the pharisees saw all the things that CHRIST was doing, but their judgement was way off....
Click to expand...
I don’t believe you’re understanding Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

If the kingdom of heaven is the spiritual kingdom that lives within you, then it can be taken from within you by force. Is this possible? Can the spiritual kingdom be taken away from someone by force? Of course not, therefore the kingdom of heaven physical and the kingdom of God is spiritual.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#80
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#80
miknik5 said:
The reason HE isn´t coming back yet sir...is because for one to be called and hear HIS VOICE, it isn´t to be by force sir...it will be by that cut to the heart, knee buckling revelation of HIM.,..

If HE were to come back and rule, that´s not true disciples sir.
Click to expand...
Agree, my point exactly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.