Not By Works

I'm trying to be nice, but I've knocked down every single one of your arguments with grounded, verifiable, logical, Biblical materiel and yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the holes in your doctrine that I've exposed.

Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Man is saved by faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-18)

That's a doctrine that many teach, but how its understood could make it true or disasterous. One of my objections is justification not being by works of the law does not somehow become justification requires vicarious works of the law. If it means that our faith will lead us naturally to do works, yeah picture it as root/fruit. But many use the idea of faith as an excuse to live their lives any way they see fit. Works is the expression of faith, they are faith made manifest.

Can you tell me how the just judge will judge and justify?

This also is clearly written in Romans 3

Please review

When have I denied that it is through Christ that many are made righteous? He is the door, the author, and perfecter of the faith. What I deny is the unBiblical idea of vicarious guilt/punishment. After all:


“But if a man is righteous and practices justice and righteousness, 6 and does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman during her menstrual period— 7 if a man does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 8 if he does not lend money on interest or take increase, if he keeps his hand from iniquity and executes true justice between man and man, 9 if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully—he is righteous and will surely live,” declares the Lord God.
10 “Then he may [g]have a violent son who sheds blood and who does any of these things to a brother 11 (though he himself did not do any of these things), that is, he even eats at the mountain shrines, and defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore a pledge, but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination, 13 he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be [h]on his own head.
14 “Now behold, he [i]has a son who has observed all his father’s sins which he committed, and observing does not do likewise. 15 He does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife, 16 or oppress anyone, or retain a pledge, or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 17 he keeps his hand from [j]the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father’s iniquity, he will surely live. 18 As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity.
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20 The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

Again, you're interpreting the whole thing through your reading of Romans. Romans is not a theological treatise and it wasn't until it began being treated as such that this false division between faith/works began. It's why Luther wanted to throw out James, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation. Grace means getting more than you deserve, but mercy is something that you can deserve based on not having done anything that requires retribution. Justice would not be just if a single penalty was given to all, but that was what sin created. It destroys without regard to morality, and the world shows it. But God is just, and the righteous find Him. The twisted gospel you preach comes from a twisted view of humanity and creates a twisted picture of justice.

“Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

What would you call "he took the penalty I deserved"? Penal substitution, as presented by protestants, calls to do exactly that. To glory in His sufferings rather than recognizing the injustice of it. The great exchange does exactly that, by placing the guilt of your sins onto Him so that you can be "deemed righteous". The point of the cross is to bring us to the point where we recognize that our answer to God's question to Job is yes and to be ashamed of it. Those who recognize this are set free because God shows that He truly is just.

You are all over the place and making much more difficult than it is... the Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand and believe.

The point of Job was that we should know to keep our mouths shut and not profess that we know anything.
Job was doing well at the beginning of his trials...it was when interference from his wife and so-called friends caused Job to open his mouth to GOD...

All mouths will be shut...no one will be able to bring to GOD any profession of anything...themselves, or their works (something his friends initially, in their ignorance, tried to get Job to do...no one needs to remind GOD of what he/she did...or the injustice of their sufferings...

Nothing will be said except one word....


GRACE

FAITH is the ROOT of SALVATION....faith, sir...

Why do you object?

Please review the VINE and the branches then....
In order for one to do the works sir....they would have to be in the VINE to begin with.

For apart from THE VINE, what can you do?

look at Saul, a murderer of Gods people. Who was saved and started the gentile church as paul, and ended up being used by God to pen most of the NT scripture..

no one is too far Gone.

God came to save sinners, not the righteous.

My issue isn't the gospel or lack of belief entirely. It's coming to accept that I haven't committed the unforgiveable sin.

The fact that you’re concerned about this is actually why you don’t need to be concerned about it. God knows your heart, and His grace is sufficient.

I'm actually not all that concerned about it. My conscience is seared and my path is set. My fate is in God's hands and nothing can change it. But He has tasked me with preaching obedience, not for salvation but because He is worthy.

We are called to preach the Good News

That's not the point of Job at all. Job is to bring comfort to those who are suffering. It's a reminder that though we may not understand God has a plan. God is just and the innocent will be vindicated. Job is a book of hope.

Obedience is good news. He is worthy, His justice is perfect, and He will judge the wicked. If you're righteous, that's great news. It's heartbreaking, but it's still great news.

I'm actually not all that concerned about it. My conscience is seared and my path is set. My fate is in God's hands and nothing can change it. But He has tasked me with preaching obedience, not for salvation but because He is worthy.

We are called to preach the Good News