Does baptismal regeneration violate the core teaching of justification by faith alone (sola fide)?

The question is simple...is it faith that saves, or is it baptism that saves? Is a person saved at the point of baptism, or is he saved at the point of faith?

And, what Scriptures would you use to support your view?

Free-willers claim that faith and repentance must be dredged out of an unsaved person's heart of stone.

Reformed people are convicted that faith and repentance is the fruit of the heart of flesh, which God gives to the elect, and the man with a stony heart cannot produce it.

Which one sounds more coherent?

By the way, my conviction is that repentance and faith happens almost at the same instant as regeneration, with the regeneration producing the faith and repentance, therefore logically repentance must precede faith and repentance.

This view gives ALL the credit to God, and NONE to the man. This is much more God-honoring. There is absolutely no room for boasting in the Reformed conviction.

Didn't we already have this discussion on another thread?

I'm glad to have it here, too, but I think that might get pretty old.

By the way, all folks have to do is read my signature and they will know what my conviction on that issue. I've only said the same things about 500 times here. I am convicted that decisional regeneration is absurd, whether it's the majority position or not.

You are not explaining the verse. All you are doing is stating what you believe, what is "coherent" to you according to your Calvinist understanding. The Bible does not say that regeneration produces faith.

Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (they become born again) after (or when) they believe the word of truth after (or when) they hear it. People have to hear the Gospel before they can choose to believe it or not. If they hear it and believe it, they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

OP question: Does baptismal regeneration violate the core teaching of justification by faith alone (sola fide)? Short answer, No.

Baptismal regeneration is when Christ baptizes with His indwelling Holy Spirit.

Spiritual baptism is ""preformed without hands"" by Christ alone. And is received thru Faith & faith alone.

Acts 1:
5 John truly baptized with water; but ye shall soon be baptized with the "Holy Spirit"
(NOTE: John the Baptist taught Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit (Matt 3:11, Mark 1:1-8 & Luke 3:16)

1 Cor 12:13 (A) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
(NOTE: By 1 Spirit/Christ's, all believer's are baptized (spiritually) into 1 body/Body of Christ. King James translators capitalized SPIRIT identifying the baptizers deity)

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision ""made without hands"" in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a SPIRITUAL circumcision/covenant done without hands. Only Christ can baptize (spiritually done/without hands) with the indwelling Holy Spirit)

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(NOTE: God's truly chosen people undergo a Spiritual circumcision/baptism. Christ alone can preform this sealing action (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30)

Deut 30:6 (A) The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart.

All have sinned (Rom 3:23). The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:23)
(NOTE: We all deserve heavens sentence for the crime of sin = DEATH. However, when we believe/place our faith in Jesus sin payment & resurrection. Christ seal us with His indwelling Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30). Our spiritual sealing is Christ's guarantee of our future resurrection onto eternal life with Him.)

KJV Dictionary Definition: TAB'ERNACLE, n. L. To dwell; to reside; to be housed; as we say, Christ tabernacled in the flesh Jn 1:14.
It is also applied to the temple. Ps.15.
A place of worship; a sacred place.
Our natural body. 2 Cor.5. 2 Pet. 1.
God's gracious presence, Rev.21.

NOTE: Ex 40:34 & 2 Chron 5:13-14 are shadows of the Lord filling us with His presents/glory/Spirit

Exodus 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

2 Chronicles 5:
13 (B) when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets, cymbals, instruments of musick & praised the LORD, saying, he is good; his mercy endureth forever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;

14 (B) the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

NOTE: Acts 2:4 Jews on the Temple Mt 1st post resurrection Pentecost. Receive the promise (Lk 24:49, Jn 7:38-39, Acts 2:33) of God's, eternally sealing/saving, indwelling presents/glory/Spirit.

Acts 2:4 (A) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,

NOTE: Acts 10:45-45, 11:15,16,17. Seven years later gentiles are given/receive the promise (Lk 24:49, Jn 7:38-39, Acts 2:33) of God's, eternally sealing/saving, indwelling presents/glory/Spirit.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
18 (C) they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Emblem = A symbolic representation of a particular quality or concept:

Water baptism is an emblem: An outwardly visible expression of our indwelling Spiritual Baptism. (1 Cor 3:16, 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16, 2 Tim 1:14, Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9,11,15).

The Lord implemented two ordinances water baptism & the Lords supper. After conversion/receiving the Lords indwelling Holy Spirit, every believer should partake in both.

Ephesians 1:13 and Acts 10.

Acts 10 clearly says that the family of Cornelius was already regenerated prior to their water baptism.

Ephesians 1:13 indicates that regeneration happens at the moment of faith, not baptism.

It would take a long time to give a full answer because the word symbol isn't used, but by studying the Greek one can identify the figures of speech used in the verses about baptism. For example, in 1 Cor 12:13 we find what's called a "structural metaphor";
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit." The body is not the physical water that another believer baptizes you into. And you don't drink the water either. But.... this physical water represent (symbolizes) the Living Water, who is the Holy Spirit. The "body" is referring to the body of Christ, who is a spiritual temple made of living stones (1 Pet 2:5). So when you are saved, you are literally baptized into the spiritual house of God, making your body now a piece of the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Justification is the moment that you believe in Jesus through Faith....The Holy Spirit baptizes you into Jesus. You are at that point "in Christ".

On a less technical point, consider this:
Jesus said "if you love me, you will obey my commandments"
-we can't love God until we are born again (1 John 4:7)
-baptism is a command (Acts 2:38)
-we can't obey His commands unless we love Him (John 14:15)

To Conclude all this:

"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
-Acts 10:47

I'll go with what the bible teaches. If you cannot articulate your points without a movie you are disappointing as a workman that needeth not be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

These verses say nothing of a "previous baptism of our spirit."

Can you find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit is going to baptize?

You are not explaining the verse. All you are doing is stating what you believe, what is "coherent" to you according to your Calvinist understanding. The Bible does not say that regeneration produces faith.

Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (they become born again) after (or when) they believe the word of truth after (or when) they hear it. People have to hear the Gospel before they can choose to believe it or not. If they hear it and believe it, they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Can you find Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit is going to baptize?

Read them more carefully.

Cornelius' family was already given the Spirit and was speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation.

Ephesians 1:13 teaches that the sealing of the Holy Spirit had already occurred after faith, and doesn't mention baptism. Certainly regeneration also occurred by then.

Do you believe in baptismal regeneration then?

I used to believe something like baptismal regeneration. But, in reality, I was saved when God regenerated me and showed me my sinfulness, and I placed my faith in Jesus Christ.

However, during the four months it took before I was baptized, I wondered what would happen if I died before I got dunked in water.

Answer: nothing..because I was already a believer. I was believing the false teachings of a cult.

In post #102 I described the 3 baptism, are you asking about the first one or the third one?

Do you believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 11:16 - And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit
we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

I absolutely believe that Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Does Jesus tell us that the Holy Spirit is going to baptize?

It is your claim that being sealed with the Holy Spirit is the same as regeneration.

I reject that claim. They are two related works of the Holy Spirit but are not the same work.

First, the Holy Spirit regenerates the person, giving him a new nature, a heart of flesh. As a fallen son of Adam, he has a heart of stone, which is not receptive to God. This regeneration produces faith and repentance. He is then sealed with the Holy Spirit.

This is different than the free-willer view which claims that the fallen man can dredge up faith and repentance from his heart of stone. He expresses this faith and repentance. He is then regenerated, or given spiritual life, in your worldview.

As I have told you, I do not agree with your worldview. It basically allows for boastfulness and pride, and dishonors God by failing to give him the honor and gratitude due to him for saving helpless sinners.

And, it gives too much credit to the sinner and his fallen nature.

Calvinism grossly overstates the power of the fallen nature of mankind.

In post #102 I described the 3 baptism, are you asking about the first one or the third one?

Does that really matter? John the Baptist said Jesus is going to baptize us with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) which was also mentioned in Acts 11:16 and in 1 Corinthians 12:13, Paul said baptized by one Spirit into one body.. Do you believe the Holy Spirit is passive during this?