Not By Works

Eliminated

One easy way to reconcile this is to simply acknowledge that Hebrews was written for doctrine during the Tribulation.

After the church is raptured, if someone believes in Jesus but choose to take the mark of the beast, then it is impossible for that believer to be renewed again. (Revelations 14:9-12)

Of course, those of you who don't believe in the pre-trib rapture will give the usual, "If one truly believes in Jesus, he will NEVER take the mark of the beast", to resolve this in your own mind.

Agree. You summarise the matter very well.

I disagree. Salvation is granted by God as an undeserved kindness. If we continue to exercise faith [have a living faith] in the ransom sacrifice of Christ we are saved. Hebrews 6:4-6 gives one example of how salvation can be lost.

And that LOVE is the same kind of LOVE, that HE Poured Into our HEART (human spirit), IT IS THE SOURCE of OUR Obedience, AFTER we have been genuinely SAVED at the Moment the HOLY SPIRIT took up residence in our HEARTS.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
19 We love because He first loved us.

Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying love for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Accepted. Clearly the demons know Jesus. Saying that we cant ignore the fact that James in discussing faith and works at James 2:17-26 referenced the demons belief in verse 19. The scriptures use the term 'believe' not me. The demons knowledge of/belief in Jesus makes them tremble. Why? They believe or have faith in the fact that there is a judgement of them to come in the future at the hands of Jesus. In fact that was the very question they asked of him at Luke 4:34.

Believe what you want to believe in the MIND that lies between your ears.

I will believe What the Holy Spirit has Put in my HEART TO BELIEVE with my spiritual mind.

1 Corinthians 2:7-16 (NIV)
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

I am not here to DEBATE YOU. I do not care what you CHOOSE to believe. I will believe what the HOLY SPIRIT puts on MY HEART.

Paul CLEARLY declares the difference between the BORN AGAIN human spirit who WILL THINK TOO, and the FLESHLY MIND that has the SIN NATURE IN IT.

You do not think you do not commit sin, . . . I CAN PROVE YOU ARE ONLY LYING TO YOURSELF:


1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man
for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for
the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put
to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as
bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
{That would be President Donald Trump, if you are an American.}

Have you NOT broken this ORDINANCE ?
-

Have you not broken this ORDINANCE ?


Have You not broken this ORDINANCE:
- -


You could be ticketed it you do THIS:

Ignorance of a law is not an excuse. Some town now TICKET texting a cross walk.

AND EVERY ONE OF THEM IS A SIN, including failure to pick up your DOGS POOP.

When are you going to repent and confess it to GOD? WHEN ? ? ?

AND What does GOD think of your little sins:

James 2:10 (NCV)
10 A person who follows all of God’s law but fails to obey even one command is guilty of breaking all the commands in that law.

What does that mean?

Osas likes to use this dumb argument that once a child is born it can't be unborn in order to prove that once you are born again you can't be unborn.
It isn't a matter about erasing the historical fact that one has been born, but rather a matter of the person who has been born dying.
That's the part of the analogy that osas doesn't understand and seems to ignore.
And that is what happens to Christians.
They stop believing and they die and no longer have the life of Christ in them anymore, just like when a person dies physically and no longer has life.

Everyone knows this.
But it does not prove osas.
It means you do not have to make another sacrifice for your sin like you did under the old system.
Instead, you continue to trust and believe in the One Sacrifice that has already been made.

Everyone knows this.
But it does not prove osas.
It does not prove that you can not lose the new life you received at the one time you were born again.

No, it's says that once you have fallen away it's impossible to be brought back to repentance.
It says nothing about the One Sacrifice being sufficient:

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." - Hebrews 6:4-6

Stop making it 'not really' say what it says.

No, what it plainly says is falling away and then coming back subjects Christ to public disgrace. That's why you can't do that:

"It is impossible for those... who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." - Hebrews 6:4-6

The very thing the passage says brings disgrace to Christ is the very thing you say you can do.
Stop making the passage 'not really' mean what it plainly says.

That's not what it says.
It says it's impossible to be renewed again because it subjects Christ to the open shame of being crucified all over again.
But you say it's impossible because it isn't necessary.
It doesn't say that.
You're saying it means that.
It plainly says it's impossible to be renewed to repentance after falling away (for the reason given).
But you say it is possible to come back to repentance after falling away.
Stop making the passage 'not really' mean what it plainly says.

Actually, it's plainly saying you can't be renewed to repentance if you fall away.
There are no words there that say you can be renewed to repentance if you fall away.

Gotcha.

What it does say is it's impossible to be brought back to repentance after falling away because it puts Christ to open shame, not because it isn't necessary as 11th hour claims.
If what she says is true then we can do the very thing the passage plainly says puts Christ to open shame--come back to repentance after falling away.

I'm guilty of a couple of these

With all due respect, this is your assumption.

I do not agree with your theory.

All that is written was written for OUR learning, not for the Pharisees learning.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope (Romans 15:4).

If the government makes a law that would make it illegal to preach the gospel and own a Bible, would you break that ordinance?

And would that be a biblical sin to break that ordinance?

I have commonly heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it "unequivocally" teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement, "IF a Christian were to fall away." The point being made is that it would be impossible if a Christian fell away to renew them again. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage then presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can permanently fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion that they would crucify again for themselves the Son of God.

In regards to the never truly saved view, the words, once enlightened, which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way and to what extent? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive.

Those who fall away could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these factors may be genuine Christians, yet these factors alone are not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, justification, salvation sealed with the Holy Spirit etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in (Hebrews 10:26-39)

These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and the powers of the age to come by temporarily responding to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead unbelievers to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" which is the guarantee of future inheritance. Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them an impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we merely "taste" into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).

In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. "Impossible to be renewed" does not equate to rising again. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again. (1 John 2:19)

In regards to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (moral self-reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief," so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for a loss of salvation, but that is not what the writer of Hebrews said.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We read in scripture that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but only truly Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

NOSAS troubles surround on every side.

V1-3: "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits"

After this comes verse 4 in my quote: "For it is impossible..." (the "for" being a conclusion)

Connection here between elementary principles, the going on and on again about the foundation of repentance...... and then it goes on to confirm an elementary principle that I mentioned in my quote - the impossibility of being saved, unsaved, then saved again (impossible to be renewed again when already renewed) - this is elementary!!

He is talking to believers here.

So yes - eternal security is an elementary principle!!!!!!!!

By the way you got nothing.

Please dearly beloved of God STOP, I have baclslid on Him after years of loving and WORKING in the service,the way some are interpeting this scripture is upsetting!
In one way you are saying NEVER can they be renewed and I get what the word says.
i was a prodical daughter and now upon returning home I am stronger and more rooted than before,but some are saying I can not be.
Thank God His grace is sufficient and isnt as our eyes,mind or heart see it..
😢😢😢😢 Otherwise many ARE NOT going to heaven!

Am I deluding myself?😢😢
i love the word and study thereof,I feel Jesus and the HolySpirit in my walk.J
i am Spirit filled with the initial evidience but the way of some talk is I am LOST.😢😢😢😢😢

I cannot watch this thread if you take away my love,joy and peace!