Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm not making justification based on anything but faith, you're misunderstanding what I mean by works to mean things like fighting sin and doing good deeds or something along those lines. Works of faith are not such things, though they can be. James' example is of Abraham offering Isaac, which is the expression of the faith that Abraham had. It is in this way that "works" are necessary for faith, but again this isn't doing good deeds or not sinning or works of the law or any sort of work in that sense. It is the expression of the faith, "works" of salvation would be things like the singing and dancing joy that comes with freedom, a generosity that comes with knowing that God provides, and other expressions of faith.

As for sanctification, again, what's the point of splitting it up since it necessarily follows faith? What is the practical purpose of putting these things in neat little doctrinal boxes rather than treating them as they exist within the Christian life with it all mixed up and messy?
Saying that something has to be done to maintain salvation. Or keep from losing salvation is says by those works are required for salvation

As for sanctification. Paul tells us God will Complete what he started. I trust God
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I disagree. Salvation is granted by God as an undeserved kindness. If we continue to exercise faith [have a living faith] in the ransom sacrifice of Christ we are saved. Hebrews 6:4-6 gives one example of how salvation can be lost.
If it can be lost it must be earned
Heb 6 is a warning to those who were trying to return to law that if salvation could be lost. It could never be regained. You would be lost forever
 
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i am Spirit filled with the initial evidience but the way of some talk is I am LOST.
God will never turn away a soul who cries out to him in contrition out of a pure heart.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Manasseh was a wicked king and committed many abominable acts, but God was intreated of him when he was in affliction and humbled himself: God was intreated of him and heard his supplication (2 Chronicles 33:1-13).
 
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V1-3: "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits"

After this comes verse 4 in my quote: "For it is impossible..." (the "for" being a conclusion)
It doesn't say "not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death" means it's impossible to do that because it isn't necessary as you claim.
Those words are not even in the passage.

Read it. It plainly says they are to grow up and move on from the elementary teachings about "repentance...faith in God....cleansing rites...laying on of hands...the resurrection....and eternal judgment".
It does not say they are to move on from repentance itself because that's impossible to do because it isn't necessary.

1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, a and of faith in God, 2instruction about cleansing rites, b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so." - Hebrews 6:1-3

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen c away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

It plainly says for them to move beyond elementary teachings and forward to maturity.
It says nothing about not being able to repent because that's not necessary.
In fact, the moving on to maturity they are to do would in fact very much represent actually repenting from acts that lead to death".
The very repentance you say the passage says is impossible to do because it isn't necessary is the repentance the author is exhorting them to do!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
It doesn't say "not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death" means it's impossible to do that because it isn't necessary as you claim.
Those words are not even in the passage.

Read it. It plainly says they are to grow up and move on from the elementary teachings about "repentance...faith in God....cleansing rites...laying on of hands...the resurrection....and eternal judgment".
It does not say they are to move on from repentance itself because that's impossible to do because it isn't necessary.

1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, a and of faith in God, 2instruction about cleansing rites, b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so." - Hebrews 6:1-3

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen c away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

It plainly says for them to move beyond elementary teachings and forward to maturity.
It says nothing about not being able to repent because that's not necessary.
In fact, the moving on to maturity they are to do would in fact very much represent actually repenting from acts that lead to death".
The very repentance you say the passage says is impossible to do because it isn't necessary is the repentance the author is exhorting them to do!

You do not understand the concept of "repentance" in this passage.
So you will never see what is being stated here.
The wrong lens.

And on that note, I might as well be talking to a brick wall
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Gotcha. (y)

What it does say is it's impossible to be brought back to repentance after falling away because it puts Christ to open shame, not because it isn't necessary as 11th hour claims.
If what she says is true then we can do the very thing the passage plainly says puts Christ to open shame--come back to repentance after falling away.
I said nothing about coming back to repentance, I said God’s grace is not eliminated. Once again you failed at trying to twist scripture in an effort to push your losable salvation heresy.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Accepted. Clearly the demons know Jesus. Saying that we cant ignore the fact that James in discussing faith and works at James 2:17-26 referenced the demons belief in verse 19. The scriptures use the term 'believe' not me. The demons knowledge of/belief in Jesus makes them tremble. Why? They believe or have faith in the fact that there is a judgement of them to come in the future at the hands of Jesus. In fact that was the very question they asked of him at Luke 4:34.
Perhaps demons tremble because they’re guilty of the unforgivable sin.

Its interesting that people who support works for maintaining salvation (you don’t) always go to James rather than Matthew 25:31-46. My guess is Jesus, though warning of dire consequences, is actually focusing on love with regards to having faith in Him.

In any case I enjoy learning from you and sharing with you.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Sorry if I seemed abrasive in my initial response to you this morning. I thought your “gotcha” was meant to be antagonistic. Normally that’s fine, but you and I have established an olive branch so I didn’t take too kindly to what I thought was antagonism. My bad. 😎❤️
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Please dearly beloved of God STOP, I have baclslid on Him after years of loving and WORKING in the service,the way some are interpeting this scripture is upsetting!
In one way you are saying NEVER can they be renewed and I get what the word says.
i was a prodical daughter and now upon returning home I am stronger and more rooted than before,but some are saying I can not be.
Thank God His
grace is sufficient and isnt as our eyes,mind or heart see it..
😢😢😢😢 Otherwise many ARE NOT going to heaven!
This ^^^^ is what God’s grace is all about.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Please dearly beloved of God STOP, I have baclslid on Him after years of loving and WORKING in the service,the way some are interpeting this scripture is upsetting!
In one way you are saying NEVER can they be renewed and I get what the word says.
i was a prodical daughter and now upon returning home I am stronger and more rooted than before,but some are saying I can not be.
Thank God His
grace is sufficient and isnt as our eyes,mind or heart see it..
😢😢😢😢 Otherwise many ARE NOT going to heaven!
Only those that preach a losable salvation are the ones that preach that a backslid person can not return to the fold of saved people.

Having said that repentance/regeneration/justification/positional sanctification>>>> are once not over and over again.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
God will never turn away a soul who cries out to him in contrition out of a pure heart.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Manasseh was a wicked king and committed many abominable acts, but God was intreated of him when he was in affliction and humbled himself: God was intreated of him and heard his supplication (2 Chronicles 33:1-13).
Contrition does not save.
 
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I’m feeling contrition that the Pittsburgh Steelers did not have a 1st round pick last night.
Focus more on the Bible than on sports and you won't be so quick to join a multitude into evil.

I directly quoted a verse than contradicts what she said and you joined her.

If saying things directly opposite to scripture isn't evil, than what is.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
[sigh]

The LORD is near unto them that are of a broken heart; and SAVETH such as be of a contrite spirit (Psalm 34:18).
If feeling sorry for sins were enough then Jesus did not have to die on the cross.

I am sure if we investigate "saveth" here we would see that it is not referring to spiritual salvation, but one that already has a connection/union with God.
 
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I am sure if we investigate "saveth" here we would see that it is not referring to spiritual salvation,
Sure, only "investigate" the scriptures that prove your false belief is wrong.

Don't "investigate" yourself into complete separation from the Bible; your half way there so far though.

There are liberal bibles out there that change "saves" into "rescues", but not many. Even the NIV has "saves".
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Christians are not saved because we have enduring faith. We are saved because we expressed faith in our enduring Lord.

A saving faith isn't about meeting some quota, it is what you place your faith in.

(Belief in, trust in, confidence in, loyalty/ fidelity to)

Those who believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, will be born again.

It is 100% Christ Jesus or it is not at all.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Sure, only "investigate" the scriptures that prove your false belief is wrong.

Don't "investigate" yourself into complete separation from the Bible; your half way there so far though.

There are liberal bibles out there that change "saves" into "rescues", but not many. Even the NIV has "saves".
Context determines meaning, and words have more than one meaning.
That is true in most any language that I know.
 
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Context determines meaning, and words have more than one meaning.
That is the basis of any language.
Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 3:7).

Silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts...

Take heed to the scriptures.

Stop trying to bring a desired meaning to them.