Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.
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we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
Like you said to me before "is believed to have" is man's opinion 
The Jews are a funny bunch, a prideful nation and it is more likely than not that they red the Hebrew scrolls. There was no Bible in those days and only the very rich could afford all the scrolls because it took a lot of sheep to create one Tanakh. They also teach Torah from a very young age and the Pharisees and Sadducees would have been taught in the Jewish ways. We can't even argue that. We also see when Jesus red from the Bible it was a scroll. In those days you had to go to the temple to read and the rest was taught by word of mouth, easy then to come to a conclusion that it happened in Hebrew.
Just out of interest sake, do you know of any Septuagint that was found that could be that old? They did some carbon dating on the very old Torah scrolls and to my knowledge it is the oldest written documents ever found (10 000 years by carbon dating standards ).
Thank you for the interesting conversation.
God bless brother
The Jews are a funny bunch, a prideful nation and it is more likely than not that they red the Hebrew scrolls. There was no Bible in those days and only the very rich could afford all the scrolls because it took a lot of sheep to create one Tanakh. They also teach Torah from a very young age and the Pharisees and Sadducees would have been taught in the Jewish ways. We can't even argue that. We also see when Jesus red from the Bible it was a scroll. In those days you had to go to the temple to read and the rest was taught by word of mouth, easy then to come to a conclusion that it happened in Hebrew.
Just out of interest sake, do you know of any Septuagint that was found that could be that old? They did some carbon dating on the very old Torah scrolls and to my knowledge it is the oldest written documents ever found (10 000 years by carbon dating standards
).Thank you for the interesting conversation.
God bless brother
So with historical data, other witness of the Ad 36 to 95 AD it is more likely than not. But I will say I could be wrong will you ?
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I don't think there is "needing anything else" in play. You seem to speak like some conspiracy has taken place...
"Persons" is clunky but very accurate description in that God is interacting within His own being. Holy Spirit intercedes for us... to whom? To self? Who else but before the Father... I went that route before myself, curious if theologists got this wrong out of wrong motives, but Father=Holy Spirit hypothesis indeed fails test run with certain verses. These instances is where term "persons" comes from. Jesus prays to Father. Jesus sends Spirit. The Spirit of God (Spirit of Father) hovers above the waters. Father Himself does not hover above the waters or anywhere, He is the mastermind. He is unseen absolute and unmanifested, you cannot see (Father) God and live. It's the Word (Son) that manifests and motions creation into being through the Spirit of love and purity which is God's essence. So the songs of Solomon say that dove is love, and undefiled. Anyway - there is various relation and interaction going on within God's being. Spirit and Father are one being but not exactly identical, and "person" is in this aspect actually accurate, although limited term.
Man is triune, mind, body, spirit/soul yet it's one being. God said we're made in the image of God and through this understand Godhead, therefore it's not a stretch to say there is a likeness in this with God. I guess I lean towards modalism, but I am aware we will never fully understand this 100% while living, theological terms just serve to get what we learn as precise as possible but when we try more than that, it is straw. So I personally don't like when people use examples such as egg yolk and egg white and similar explanations of triune nature of God, this doesn't effectively tell us about God's nature, rather, it's bringing more confusion, that's pretty much man racking his brains to understand so people come up with various analogies. But God told us to look at the image that man was made in, which is the most accurate analogy to look at.
"Persons" is clunky but very accurate description in that God is interacting within His own being. Holy Spirit intercedes for us... to whom? To self? Who else but before the Father... I went that route before myself, curious if theologists got this wrong out of wrong motives, but Father=Holy Spirit hypothesis indeed fails test run with certain verses. These instances is where term "persons" comes from. Jesus prays to Father. Jesus sends Spirit. The Spirit of God (Spirit of Father) hovers above the waters. Father Himself does not hover above the waters or anywhere, He is the mastermind. He is unseen absolute and unmanifested, you cannot see (Father) God and live. It's the Word (Son) that manifests and motions creation into being through the Spirit of love and purity which is God's essence. So the songs of Solomon say that dove is love, and undefiled. Anyway - there is various relation and interaction going on within God's being. Spirit and Father are one being but not exactly identical, and "person" is in this aspect actually accurate, although limited term.
Man is triune, mind, body, spirit/soul yet it's one being. God said we're made in the image of God and through this understand Godhead, therefore it's not a stretch to say there is a likeness in this with God. I guess I lean towards modalism, but I am aware we will never fully understand this 100% while living, theological terms just serve to get what we learn as precise as possible but when we try more than that, it is straw. So I personally don't like when people use examples such as egg yolk and egg white and similar explanations of triune nature of God, this doesn't effectively tell us about God's nature, rather, it's bringing more confusion, that's pretty much man racking his brains to understand so people come up with various analogies. But God told us to look at the image that man was made in, which is the most accurate analogy to look at.
Pretty much every time the word "person" is used in the bible, it is translated from the word meaning "soul".
in other words, someone with a soul is a person, Biblically speaking. Its the reason we are made in the image of God and not animals. We have a sol and animals don't.
God has a soul, therefore by definition, He is a a person......otherwise you couldn't have a personal relationship with Him.
in other words, someone with a soul is a person, Biblically speaking. Its the reason we are made in the image of God and not animals. We have a sol and animals don't.
God has a soul, therefore by definition, He is a a person......otherwise you couldn't have a personal relationship with Him.
Yes of course I could be wrong the thing about Jewish culture is that since very early in the world’s history they preserved the unadulterated word of YHVH and because of that they kept everything in Hebrew, even today they are very picky about who they will teach if it is not a Jew. The last decade or more it is as if God has allowed the gentiles access to the Jews' knowledge of Hebrew and that is why there are so many people understanding the Hebrew a lot better these days.
The Jews of today are still teaching their children like their ancestors in Hebrew and that is why I still say it was in Hebrew because they are still doing it today, no matter where they stay. Do yourself a favour and walk into a Jewish synagogue and see how many things are written in Hebrew.
God bless brother
the thing about Jewish culture is that since very early in the world’s history they preserved the unadulterated word of YHVH and because of that they kept everything in Hebrew, even today they are very picky about who they will teach if it is not a Jew. The last decade or more it is as if God has allowed the gentiles access to the Jews' knowledge of Hebrew and that is why there are so many people understanding the Hebrew a lot better these days.The Jews of today are still teaching their children like their ancestors in Hebrew and that is why I still say it was in Hebrew because they are still doing it today, no matter where they stay. Do yourself a favour and walk into a Jewish synagogue and see how many things are written in Hebrew.
God bless brother
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The term glorified body is used to describe Jesus after the resurrection and it could be that people get it from verses like Philippians 3:20-21 etc.
If we think about it YHVH said that we can’t see Him in all His glory when we are in our flesh because we will die. There should have been some transfiguration for Abraham and the Saints to have spoken to God and even fed Him.
If we think about it YHVH said that we can’t see Him in all His glory when we are in our flesh because we will die. There should have been some transfiguration for Abraham and the Saints to have spoken to God and even fed Him.
We know there are two sides to Yeshua, one is the lamb where he is kind and gentle but there is also the lion that will destroy.
In the Biblical times when cities went to war their armies had to enter the gates of other friendly cities to get to the cities they were fighting, so if the king or leader entered a city on a donkey they came in peace, but if he entered it on a horse it was a declaration of war.
Jesus entered His city the first time on the back of a donkey (coming in peace/lamb) but the next time He will enter it by horse (war/lion).
In the Biblical times when cities went to war their armies had to enter the gates of other friendly cities to get to the cities they were fighting, so if the king or leader entered a city on a donkey they came in peace, but if he entered it on a horse it was a declaration of war.
Jesus entered His city the first time on the back of a donkey (coming in peace/lamb) but the next time He will enter it by horse (war/lion).
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Yes, man is triune. But the Mind cannot exist without the Body and does not need a Soul. The Body cannot function without the Mind and does not need a Soul. But for Spiritual and Eternal events, the Soul needs both the Body and Mind to be held accountable in Judgement. So, it is nothing like God at all. The only example is that the physical appearance of man is like the image of the One God. Science is my first major and Mathematics is my second. So, it's hard to pull a fast one on me in terms of how we choose to use man in the likeness of God!
If you are raptures you will never be disembodied, but If you die before then, your body will stay on earth until the resurrection. In the Resurrection of the Saints, we will all be changed into the glory and likeness of His resurrection (Rom 6:5; 1 Cor 15). The last few verses of 1 Thessalonians clarifies that we are in fact one being with 3 components of body, soul and spirit
The only difference between us humans and the animal kingdom is a soul. If the animals can live off of just mind and body, we could as well. Since the soul is only vital for Spiritual matters, that differs us from a Triune God where all 3 parts have to equal. So, we are only LIKE the Appearance of the One God because the soul is not necessary for us to exist. Therefore, the soul is not equal to the mind or body to be human. As the mind or body are not equal to the soul in Spiritual matters.
The Bible teach us that we can't see God in all his glory when we are in our physical form, but it is clear from the OT that many of the Saints interacted directly with Abba Father. How is it possible?
Moses had to close his eyes and his face was radiant when YHVH moved past Him, but Abraham had a conversation with Him. The difference is and was always Yeshua/Jesus. He was our mediator from day 1.
God bless brother
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Nice that you are an academic citizen, but sorry I am not impressed with how you approach the Bible... You are not comprehensive in your reading, so when something contradicts you, you do not offer a convincing explanation theory to harmonize it all (like a scientist would), but simply ignore what doesn't suit you... I mean it's great that this isn't a salvation matter so however the discussion goes with whatever thoughts we walk away is fine... But you conclude definite things based on a verse or two, instead basing conclusions upon the entire body of verses we are given about a specific matter, which is what is the problem. Most of your arguments in that post were assumptions without any base in the Bible. I don't even want to go into all, but I since you jumped onto soul. When you say "body doesn't need a soul"... But in Genesis God breathed into the body of Adam, "and man became a living soul". Acquiring soul means life in a BODY sustained by God's breath (Spirit), so soul and body are inseparable, you're mixing up soul with spirit (ghost), which can live without physical body and is said to return to God...
While reconstructing the analogy of image, we have to go by the clues the Bible gives us:
God has body (body of Christ) aka physical manifestation. Man has physical manifestation. Man also has a spirit or identity/essence/being and God also has Spirit (Love). This leaves the mind and soul. "Thoughts of the heart" - the Bible merges mind and soul together, it is one thing as sin and thoughts proceed from the heart, and it is the "soul that sins" that "shall die". So Biblically, the heart, mind and soul are all pointing at the same thing, the living, conscient, intelligent, sentient aspect of man. The Father is the mind and soul of God and He is analogous to this in man that thoughts of His heart (Loving center of being), aka will and intention arise from Him ("our Father, Thy will be done") like our intentions arise from our hearts. Jesus says that Father had given us into His hand - the forethought is the Father's, confirming that He's the mind of God.
I'm not brainwashed or biased or anything against your idea that Father = Holy Spirit. I have no reason to be, because I traversed it myself for a while, and it failed to line up fully with the Scriptures. It's a very attractive hypothesis, hyping one up to think that the frustrating theological explanations and dumb analogies are a thing of the past if we just read carefully enough, and that these people had no idea and just complicated it to keep people away from the truth, but it's actually soooo simple, and now we have it all figured out about God... Yes yes very attractive idea, fell for it myself, but in reality when all, not just cherrypicked verses are brought up, it exposes that it does not stand, and Father is not exactly the same as Holy Spirit, there is certain interrelation within God's being.
While reconstructing the analogy of image, we have to go by the clues the Bible gives us:
God has body (body of Christ) aka physical manifestation. Man has physical manifestation. Man also has a spirit or identity/essence/being and God also has Spirit (Love). This leaves the mind and soul. "Thoughts of the heart" - the Bible merges mind and soul together, it is one thing as sin and thoughts proceed from the heart, and it is the "soul that sins" that "shall die". So Biblically, the heart, mind and soul are all pointing at the same thing, the living, conscient, intelligent, sentient aspect of man. The Father is the mind and soul of God and He is analogous to this in man that thoughts of His heart (Loving center of being), aka will and intention arise from Him ("our Father, Thy will be done") like our intentions arise from our hearts. Jesus says that Father had given us into His hand - the forethought is the Father's, confirming that He's the mind of God.
I'm not brainwashed or biased or anything against your idea that Father = Holy Spirit. I have no reason to be, because I traversed it myself for a while, and it failed to line up fully with the Scriptures. It's a very attractive hypothesis, hyping one up to think that the frustrating theological explanations and dumb analogies are a thing of the past if we just read carefully enough, and that these people had no idea and just complicated it to keep people away from the truth, but it's actually soooo simple, and now we have it all figured out about God... Yes yes very attractive idea, fell for it myself, but in reality when all, not just cherrypicked verses are brought up, it exposes that it does not stand, and Father is not exactly the same as Holy Spirit, there is certain interrelation within God's being.
I am just stating your example of the human is factually not correct when comparing it to the 3 equal parts that make up God. All you are going by is what hundreds before you have concocted without having a clue as to what they understand. But a true Student of God's Word is also a true Student of what we read God is (Scientist-Mathematician-Physician-ext)(which can all be found in the Bible)(In the Book of Job God speaks of Mathematics and Astrophysics)...All I am saying is until you know what God is saying, you are guessing what He means!
And the human body only needs a mind and body to exist. The soul has nothing to do with how the mind functions or the body works. But with a triune God, the Father-Son-Holy Spirit must be and have to be EQUAL to exist!