Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

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J

John146

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azamzimtoti said:
Not following your line of reasoning here 146, James is prophesying the soon coming judgment otherwise James would not state the judge is at the door ready to "enter".
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Little did James know that he was writing to future Jews right before the coming of the Lord. The letter of James was written before Paul’s epistles, yet strategically placed after Paul’s letters to the body of Christ. That’s where it fits chronologically.

During the tribulation, right before His return, Jesus, the judge will be ready to return as judge of the earth. This is what James is writing about.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Micaiah-imla said:
Does anyone know where the tribes are today?

Can any Jewish person self identify which of the 12 tribes they're from?

Intermarriage was going on in Nehemiah's days. Imagine how diluted the the tribes must be by today.

God wanted them to stay to their own tribes' inheritances. It's unimaginable how corrupt this situation must be by now.
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No they can't self identify, there is no such thing as a Jew today. The only reason they existed as Jews to begin with was because they all lived in the same geographic area and married amongst themselves.

You are right, they are diluted to the point that saying you're Jewish really doesn't mean anything anyway. And this is but one of many other reasons to believe that the 144000 were sealed 2000 years ago.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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KJV1611 said:
Like I said earlier, there are several levels of dispensationalism. The most extreme believe that certain sections of the bible are written to the Jews before the tribulation, some scripture is written to the Jews during the tribulation and some scripture is only written to the church.

Along with that, they believe that each one of the groups above are saved by different methods... different dispensations of grace. Some is grace alone while others are grace plus works.

They also believe in the "7 Year Tribulation", "The antichrist" making a peace treaty with Israel some time in the near future according to them. They won't be here for that though because Jesus will rapture them out. They also believe that Christ will sit on the literal throne of David in Jerusalem and we will rule and reign with him during that time.

This is my understanding and dispensationalist feel free to correct me.
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Thank you. I will just make sure I don't use the D-word any more then.(y)
 
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Micaiah-imla

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KJV1611 said:
they are diluted to the point that saying you're Jewish really doesn't mean anything anyway.
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Well, there's goes *Dispensationalism out the window.

*They claim Hebrews through Revelation is for the Twelve Tribes in the tribulation period. How can this be when there's no twelve tribes to speak of today? And how can doctrines for an unknown group be profitable to unknown persons?

It's amazing how these extra-biblical teachings gain any ground.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Micaiah-imla said:
Well, there's goes *Dispensationalism out the window.

*They claim Hebrews through Revelation is for the Twelve Tribes in the tribulation period. How can this be when there's no twelve tribes to speak of today? And how can doctrines for an unknown group be profitable to unknown persons?

It's amazing how these extra-biblical teachings gain any ground.
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I can tell you exactly how these extra-biblical teachings gain ground.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

"And" means "and" all throughout the bible except this one verse... lol. The bible's there to correct false theology if we will just believe the words. The "general belief" of the mark of the beast is just as heretical as dispensationalism.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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John146 said:
Nope, not if you believe that the time period to whom James is writing is to the Jews right before the second coming of the Lord. Can Scripture be prophetic?
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He writing to living people (the diaspora - scattered tribes) of Jesus' generation not to some imaginary generation hundreds of years in the future.
 
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John146

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azamzimtoti said:
He writing to living people (the diaspora - scattered tribes) of Jesus' generation not to some imaginary generation hundreds of years in the future.
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The twelve tribes were scattered in the diaspora? I know Christians were scattered, but not the twelve tribes.

Will not the twelve tribes be scattered in the tribulation?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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John146 said:
The twelve tribes were scattered in the diaspora? I know Christians were scattered, but not the twelve tribes.

Will not the twelve tribes be scattered in the tribulation?
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That's how the gospel was spread to all nations. Persecution during a time of great tribulation forced them to leave home.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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John146 said:
The twelve tribes were scattered in the diaspora? I know Christians were scattered, but not the twelve tribes.
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He's writing to the 10 tribes that were scattered, but he includes them with the 12. The ten tribes of the northern kingdom were scattered when the kingdom was sacked by the Assyrians in 721 BC. They became known as the diaspora.

G1290 diaspora dee-as-por-ah'

from G1289;

dispersion, i.e. (specially and concretely) the (converted) Israelite resident in Gentile countries.

KJV: (which are) scattered (abroad).

Will not the twelve tribes be scattered in the tribulation?
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Where do you get that from?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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KJV1611 said:
That's how the gospel was spread to all nations. Persecution during a time of great tribulation forced them to leave home.
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We don't know if the 10 diaspora tribes returned to live in Jerusalem/Judea K16, it's possible, as far as I know there is no mention of it in the letters or Acts.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

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KJV1611 said:
According to verse 9 it will not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
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IMO,a person who Is In full contact or a person that relates totally to things that they can see,taste,hear,smell or feel will look at taking the mark of the beast as a good thing because It makes buying and selling much easier.

In a cashless society a person wouldn’t need a wallet or ID or paper money or a credit card,just wave your hand all your Information is available.It would be like auto pay to some people.

IMO whoever controls the Internet Is probably going to control a one world government.
 
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John146

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KJV1611 said:
That's how the gospel was spread to all nations. Persecution during a time of great tribulation forced them to leave home.
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In Scripture, the term “twelve tribes” never refers to Christians, but to the entire nation of Israel. I’m not willing to contradict scripture to fit an agenda.
 
J

John146

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azamzimtoti said:
We don't know if the 10 diaspora tribes returned to live in Jerusalem/Judea K16, it's possible, as far as I know there is no mention of it in the letters or Acts.
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The twelve tribes weren’t scattered, only Christians. In Christ, there are no twelve tribes. Twelve tribes is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole, never a called out group from that nation.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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azamzimtoti said:
We don't know if the 10 diaspora tribes returned to live in Jerusalem/Judea K16, it's possible, as far as I know there is no mention of it in the letters or Acts.
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I was talking about all the converted Jews living in Israel. The wicked Jews were persecuting them severely.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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John146 said:
Little did James know that he was writing to future Jews right before the coming of the Lord. .
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How can he be writing to a future generation of Jews when he includes himself with (our) those he's writing to - "being a certain first-fruit".

(James 1:16 Having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures.)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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John146 said:
In Scripture, the term “twelve tribes” never refers to Christians, but to the entire nation of Israel. I’m not willing to contradict scripture to fit an agenda.
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Jews that converted to Christianity were Christians... they were part of the 12 tribes. No?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

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John146 said:
The twelve tribes weren’t scattered, only Christians. In Christ, there are no twelve tribes. Twelve tribes is always a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole, never a called out group from that nation.
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So why is James writing to scattered tribes that were not scattered?

(James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.)

You just totally contradicted the text.
 
J

John146

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azamzimtoti said:
How can he be writing to a future generation of Jews when he includes himself with (our) those he's writing to - "being a certain first-fruit".

(James 1:16 Having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures.)
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He’s addressing his fellow Jewish brethren. James was a Jew.
 
J

John146

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#279
azamzimtoti said:
So why is James writing to scattered tribes that were not scattered?

(James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.)

You just totally contradicted the text.
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They are scattered abroad during the tribulation. They were never scattered abroad in james’ day, only the early Church in Acts. The early Church in Acts are not the twelve tribes. That would contradict all other scripture references.
 
J

John146

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KJV1611 said:
Jews that converted to Christianity were Christians... they were part of the 12 tribes. No?
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They were, past tense, part of the twelve tribes, but the term includes all members from those tribes that make up the nation of Israel as a whole. Most of the twelve tribes in James day rejected Jesus.
 
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