Let's Add to the Gospel!

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#1
(warning: the following paragraph is said 'tongue-in-cheek', although many believe this way)

Apparently, Christ's perfect obedience unto death was not enough, therefore what should we, sinful beings, add to make His sacrifice sufficient for our salvation?
Should we add...
'our determination to be obedient'?
'our faithfulness and endurance to the end'?
'our good works'?
'our forgiveness to others?'

(tongue comes out of cheek)
Or is the list above (and the list grows daily), evidence that we have been forgiven, been received and have been regenerated solely on the basis of faith in Jesus and His Gospel (1Cor 15:1-4)?

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(Rom 3:21-25)

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:2-5)

Please don't pull a verse or two out of James to support your system of works-salvation.
Paul spends four chapters spelling out in great detail the Gospel and you are going to yank a couple of verses out of context from James just to make your 'pet doctrine' of faith+works salvation walk on all fours? James is simply differentiating false profession from true possession, otherwise you are saying Paul and James contradict each other...which is unacceptable if all Scripture is inspired by God.

So let's add to the Gospel! ???

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:8-9)
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#2
Brother Cross,
may we follow our Saviour's Words;
may we follow our hero's steps;
may we humble our selves and walk
in His/their steps...
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#5
James is simply differentiating false profession from true possession, otherwise you are saying Paul and James contradict each other...which is unacceptable if all Scripture is inspired by God.
Acts 21:18-21
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Simple questions from a reading of this account.
  1. Did James believed that Jews who believed in Jesus still needed to circumcise their kids, and walk after the customs?
  2. Did James suggest to Paul to participate in such a custom so that "all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."?
  3. Did James exempt the Gentiles from having to follow the Law of Moses?
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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#6
“The just shall live by faith” (Gal 3:11). What is faith? I’ve been blessed in my understanding of it by this teaching from David Pawson.

He explains that “… all together there are five elements in faith. It’s a recipe with five ingredients, … but it’s not saving faith until it has all five elements in it: (1) the historical, (2) the personal, (3) the verbal, (4) the practical, and (5) the continual.”

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#7
Simple questions from a reading of this account.
  1. Did James believed that Jews who believed in Jesus still needed to circumcise their kids, and walk after the customs?
  2. Did James suggest to Paul to participate in such a custom so that "all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."?
  3. Did James exempt the Gentiles from having to follow the Law of Moses?
That's not the topic and please don't derail this thread into a Gospel of the Kingdom vs Gospel of Grace issue. Paul concluded ALL, both Jew and Gentile under sin in Romans 3:9: Gal 3:22
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#8
That's not the topic and please don't derail this thread into a Gospel of the Kingdom vs Gospel of Grace issue. Paul concluded ALL, both Jew and Gentile under sin in Romans 3:9: Gal 3:22
I was addressing your point about whether Paul and James agreed. That was in your OP correct?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#9
I was addressing your point about whether Paul and James agreed. That was in your OP correct?
Your leading questions had nothing to do with the OP...

"Simple questions from a reading of this account.
  1. Did James believed that Jews who believed in Jesus still needed to circumcise their kids, and walk after the customs?
  2. Did James suggest to Paul to participate in such a custom so that "all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."?
  3. Did James exempt the Gentiles from having to follow the Law of Moses?"
nor did your quote from Acts 21.

I was talking about adding to 'faith alone' as many argue against, using the Book of James, esp chap 2.
(hope that helps)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#10
Your leading questions had nothing to do with the OP...

"Simple questions from a reading of this account.
  1. Did James believed that Jews who believed in Jesus still needed to circumcise their kids, and walk after the customs?
  2. Did James suggest to Paul to participate in such a custom so that "all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."?
  3. Did James exempt the Gentiles from having to follow the Law of Moses?"
nor did your quote from Acts 21.

I was talking about adding to 'faith alone' as many argue against, using the Book of James, esp chap 2.
(hope that helps)
James is adding to Paul's doctrine there, that it is not faith alone that saves the Jewish believers. He believed circumcision continues to be necessary, but Paul himself stated in Galatians 5:2 that circumcision results in Christ profiting one nothing.

That is a clear disagreement between the 2 of them

The book of James was written years before that Acts 21 incident. So if James felt that way in Acts 21, it is hard to believe that James believed salvation for Jews is ever by faith alone in James 2, and the literal reading of James 2 confirmed that.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#11
it is hard to believe that James believed salvation for Jews is ever by faith alone in James 2, and the literal reading of James 2 confirmed that.
Quit it please. James and Paul do not have two different Gospels, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.
Again, please take your pet doctrine elsewhere.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#12
Quit it please. James and Paul do not have two different Gospels, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.
Again, please take your pet doctrine elsewhere.
Acts 21:20-25 presents a very tough counter example to those who insist on making James and Paul agree on the gospel that saves er?

I rest my case then. Fortunately for all of us now, there is only indeed one gospel that saves, which is found in Paul's gospel, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#13
Salvation is only found in Christ Jesus. As I see the debates and what the Epistles teach the salvation is different between the Jew and gentile.
Israel is to be redeemed, gentiles are to be born again and grafted into the blood line.
Jesus came to the house of Israel first and only for he was and is their promised Messiah. Because of the rejection Gods grace extended to the gentiles "for the word of the Lord shall not return void." Now salvation is for all of those who believe. Jesus not only is the promised Messiah but now become savior of the world fulfilling prophecy.
The difficulty in Paul's ministry was explaining the fine line of Jew and gentile salvation. For the lack of better words.
Now here's something that some disagree by saying Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again. That's true he did say that but look at this if you will. Was Jesus talking about Nicodemus or Israel? (Jacob)
Jesus said when you see the fig tree blossom and bring forth fruit know that your redemption is near.
As we know in may of 1948 Israel became a state again. The rebirth of Israel if you will.

Have to leave for now.....be back latter.

This is only thoughts not scripture proofed or any doctrine.
Feel free to correct me as I get many of these things going on in my brain.....lol😕😕😕😕
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#14
Apparently, Christ's perfect obedience unto death was not enough, therefore what should we, sinful beings, add to make His sacrifice sufficient for our salvation?
Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was sufficient. Nothing can be added or put to it.

But now, after believing the truth, you must take up your cross and follow him in word and deed.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#15
Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
James is adding to Paul's doctrine there, that it is not faith alone that saves the Jewish believers. He believed circumcision continues to be necessary, but Paul himself stated in Galatians 5:2 that circumcision results in Christ profiting one nothing.

That is a clear disagreement between the 2 of them

The book of James was written years before that Acts 21 incident. So if James felt that way in Acts 21, it is hard to believe that James believed salvation for Jews is ever by faith alone in James 2, and the literal reading of James 2 confirmed that.
if james was written BEFORE, Then how can he be adding?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#17
if james was written BEFORE, Then how can he be adding?
The OP started by quoting Paul correct?

So my point was James always believed Jews needed to do works, together with faith, for salvation. (James 2:14).

In that sense, he was adding to Paul.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
Acts 21:20-25 presents a very tough counter example to those who insist on making James and Paul agree on the gospel that saves er?

I rest my case then. Fortunately for all of us now, there is only indeed one gospel that saves, which is found in Paul's gospel, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
That passage does not say what you think it says.. It is not concerning the gospel. it is concerning traditions..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was sufficient. Nothing can be added or put to it.

But now, after believing the truth, you must take up your cross and follow him in word and deed.
What if we do not do everythign Jesus did, or achieve his lefel of righteousness?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#20
That passage does not say what you think it says.. It is not concerning the gospel. it is concerning traditions..
Jews who believed still needed to keep the Law, including circumcising their kids, according to James.

That is what Acts 21:20-25 is saying, correct?